What makes hordes of yelling barbarians terrifying even after Marian r

[Pisces Axxxxx]

I've read on the Battle of Allia and apparently a major cause of defeat was the fact that the Gauls were yelling out terrifying war screams that played a major role in breaking the Roman Phalanx.

 

However this was before the Marian reforms and was at a time when the Romans were farmer-soldiers so this did not surprise me.

 

However I also read years after the Marian reforms, when the Roman Legions were confronted with the Gauls and other "Barbarians" there are descriptions of Roman soldiers shaking in fear at the initial phases of the battle when the Barbarians were yelling out their fierce war cries.

 

In some cases Roman Legions were paralyzed according to various stuff on the internet that they cannot move or maintain ranks.

 

I am curious what makes hordes of screaming Barbarians so scary to even train soldiers like the Romans? Modern military standards would consider the thoughts of fearing an enemy force simply because it screams and yells so much as a mark of poor discipline!

[Metella]

Yet the fame of the Rebel Yell is still around today.    

 

I lived in the south for a while, they talk it about it !    However, being a 'Yankee' (which I am NOT -but I guess any American who is not Southern gets that label)  no one would share the yell with me - so I have no idea what it sounded like.

 

Still, I am with you - if I am girded up for battle - I am not really going to be concerned about battle cries .... I've got other things going on in my mind.

[caldrail]

 

I am curious what makes hordes of screaming Barbarians so scary to even train soldiers like the Romans?

Lets cut the nonsense. Soldiers feel fear regardless of training. Human beings have behavioural traits programmed into them and we're not immune even after basic training, however much we klike to assume so. veterans are very quick to confirm this. They often relate their personal feelings immediately prior to combat and it's always the same, regardless of the period.

 

Strong discipline and good leadrrship offset these instincts (which is why they are so important) but never supplant it. I recall a documentary about british soldiers in Afghanistan. Coming under fire, one of them was severely injured (he later died sadly) and the soldiers were confused, made lethargic by the loud noises and sudden reality of their dangerous situation. The sergeant was furious at them and without his steaffast direction, they were close to collapse as a military unit. That's not a criticism of the modern UK armed services - just an observation from the safety of an armchair, watching young men under fire for the first time.

 

I remember working alongside a gentleman who had been previously jailed for soccer violence. He enjoyed a good fight. So practised was he that it all came very naturally to him. He didn't think about what to do, he simply acted dispassionately. As it was, he still enjoyed a fake tussle or two and more than once he selected me as his sparring partner (I once fell through a door into a quiet office as a result. A bit embarrasing, but boys will be boys). The point is that he almost always had the initiative because I never had any intention of attacking him. But then, he was messing around, and I knew it. Had he been serious, yelling and rushing at me in wild abandon, I might not have been so amused or calm about my impending assault.

[Maty]

In my experience the important thing just before going into action is to keep busy. If one is re-checking kit for the thousandth time, or calculating firepoints and angles then it takes one's mind off  impending doom.

 

I'd guess that the problem with barbarian screams is they remove the possibility of distracting oneself in this way.

[Virgil61]

Any war cry is about building oneself & one's comrades up as much if not more than trying to intimidate the enemy. I doubt that a barbarian's war cry had as much to do with the outcome of the Battle of Allia as the fact the Gauls vastly outnumbered the Roman army or that one wing of the army collapsed leaving the center and other wing exposed. The cries being so vivid are probably just remembered more. 

 

The question is misguided in my opinion. There are, certainly during the expansionist years of the Republic and Principate, certainly more examples of 'barbarians' utilizing war cries & being slaughtered by Roman soldiers than the other way around. 

 

The point about checking and rechecking keeping one busy is very valid but I'd also add it gives a sense of confidence as well that helps offset fear. 

 

I'd add one modern day example. Jumping out of airplanes at 800 to 1200 ft [300-400 meters] high is not a natural thing for a human being to do. The army trained us for two weeks on how to exit a [mock-up] aircraft, how to navigate down to the ground, what actions in the air you need to do if something bad happens (collision with other jumpers, chute problems, etc.) and how to land without injury. By the time you do your first jump out of an aircraft in the third week you're scared but also very confident of managing that jump and of utilizing the training if something goes wrong. 

[caldrail]

That begs the question of how busy can you be in a cohort of swordsmen waiting for those hairy barbarians out there to get on with it? I've always maintained that face to face conflict, however terrible, is far easier and more natural for human beings to cope with, since bladed weapons are allegories of teeth and claws thus rather instinctive in that sense. Also, the fact that you're shoulder to shouklder with the rest iof your formation adds a certain sense of security.

 

(I have to go a bit further, because in the past I've said that firearms at a distance are easier. It is, because the target is far away and less threatening. That doesn't mean the noise and immediacy of modern warfare is, however. Far from it. Human beings do not psychologically like sudden bangs and suprises all that much. That's why horror films are enjoyed by people, because the suprises induce an adrenaline rush even though we know the risk of death or injury in the audience is usually somewhat remote)

Edited March 4, 2013 by caldrail