peter_gr Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 I am posting this question in Academia, as no other forums would seem to cover the area. The Romans would have created many colonies in Britain, at strategic locations, where discharged soldiers settled after their enlistment. Boudicca took care to destroy the colony at Colchester, for example. It is logical that these people would have had families and communities. In other provinces, such as Gaul and Spain, they would have contributed greatly to the spread of the Latin language. However no such affect appears to have occurred in Britain. When the Romans left, surely these communities, which would have been there for hundreds of years, would have continued on. Why did these communities, strategically located and descended from fighting men, simply fold when the boat people turned up? Compare to Dacia, where the Romans had colonies for a much shorter period, and where Latin most probably continued on to Romanian today. My own way-out theory is that these colonies may not have spoken Latin. What if they spoke German? Could the Romans have simply settled all their German veterans in Britain? When the Romans left, they would naturally have allied with Germanic peoples against the Celtic British. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostOfClayton Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 Only four Colonia were established in Britannia, and these were at Lincoln, York, Colchester and Gloucester. Colonia were, as you correctly say, set up for Legionary veterans, and were granted a higher status than similar sized settlements. I can't really speak for the other three, but I am qualified to speak about Lincoln's story. After one or two generations, the significance of Legionary veterans would be lost, and the populace of a Colonia would be indistinguishable from those of any sizable Romano-British city. When the Romans withdrew from Britannia in AD410, ask yourself who actually left? It's likely most of the military remained, though not as an organised unit (evidence from Birdoswald and Vindolanda suggests some became local militia). Possibly any senior military commander on a temporary assignment would have gone home. Other than that, withdrawal amounted to the withdrawal of cash, supplies, new troops, new officers, communications, etc. Trade would have continued though reduced due to the constant invasions from Angles, etc. What this would lead to would be a gradual reduction in the effectiveness of the social infrastructure. When this happens, life in cities becomes less and less viable - food, water, and supplies must be constantly brought into cities, and as the social infrastructure breaks down, this becomes more and more difficult. Subsistence in a city is nigh-on impossible; nowhere to grow your crops. Education also suffers, and sophisticated skills are not passed on, beyond thoise required for subsistence living. Thus Lincoln became almost deserted from the end of the fifth century onward, until the Danes reoccupied it. I can imagine a similar story happening elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crberger Posted December 30, 2012 Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 Is that what happened to, "province of Badiddlyboing Odawidahonia"? ROFL Sorry, could not resist... So, getting back to the topic...does Lincoln have a temple or ruins thereof and is there a good reference for the construction and life in a colonia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostOfClayton Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 . . . and I always imagined Baddidlyboing Odawidaho was still a thriving community! Lincoln has an excellent archaeological record, and some cracking stuff you can still visit today. Nothing that you'd call a temple, though, I'm afraid. The nearest thing would be the reamins of St Paul in the Bail, a paleo-christian church which was built in the Forum courtayrd, and dates from as early as AD350. A thoroughly excellent book to fit your requirements would be: Jones, M J 2002, Roman Lincoln: Conquest, Colony and Capital: Fortress, Colony and Capital , Tempus Publishing http://www.amazon.co.uk/Roman-Lincoln-Conquest-Capital-Fortress/dp/0752414550/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1356949651&sr=1-1 MJ Jones is (or at least used to be - I haven't spoken to him for a few years now) the City Archaeologist, so really knows his stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crberger Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) Peter, Given the amount of time between the Roman "official" departure to the influx of the germans I would think that they would have assimilated into the local culture through inter-marriage and land owning and might have been reluctant to join the influx of tribes. Plus, I am not sure how much we know, right now, of the numbers of German auxiliaries in Britain at the beginning of the 5th century. These are my guesses based on readings so far, so take them with a grain of salt, a loaf of bread and a jug of gaulish wine. Felix Anno Novum Edited January 2, 2013 by crberger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldrail Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 There were Germans living in Britain during the Roman occupation, regarded as 'good citizens' on the whole, sometimes settling in appreciable numbers, especially those involved in military occupations. There is evidence for late empire saxon burial grounds in my area. Enjoy your meal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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