Titus as a Propagandist

[Divus Iulius]

I have being doing a lot of reading, specially that of Suetonius, Josephus, Tacitus and Pliny, so here are some quotes of these Historian, that suggest that the Flavians and rose to power through Propaganda

 

[Tacitus, Histories, 1. 10.]

Flavius Vespasian, a general of Nero's appointment, was carrying on the war in Judaea with three legions, and he had no wish or feeling adverse to Galba. He had in fact sent his son Titus to acknowledge his authority and bespeak his favour, as in its proper place I shall relate. As for the hidden decrees of fate, the omens and the oracles that marked out Vespasian and his sons for imperial power, we believed in them only after his success.

 

[Tacitus, History, 5. 13]

in the ancient records of their priests was contained a prediction of how at this very time the East was to grow powerful, and rulers, coming from Judaea, were to acquire universal empire. These mysterious prophecies had pointed to Vespasian and Titus,

 

[suetonius, Life of Vespasian, 4]

An ancient superstition was current in the East, that out of Judea would come the rulers of the world. This prediction, as it later proved, referred to the two Roman Emperors, Vespasian and his son Titus; but the rebellious Jews, who read it as referring to themselves.

 

[Josephus War of the Jews, 6.5.4]

But now, what did most elevate them [the Jews] in undertaking this war was an ambiguous oracle that was found in their sacred writings, how,

Edited August 14, 2012 by Divus Iulius

[Melvadius]

You already effectively have the answer in your posting:

 

Flavius Vespasian, a general of Nero's appointment, was carrying on the war in Judaea with three legions

.

 

The only area where there were more men under arms was along the Rhine frontier and the legions there had already raised Vitellus as their own favoured contender for the 'purple'. The fact he then went on a killing rampage and let the Rhine frontier descend into open rebellion had not endeared him to Rome it had also tied up most of his military supporters back on the frontier leaving the way open for Vespasian to control the grain supply as part of his own 'reluctant' drive for power to relieve Rome of its suffering under Vitellus.

 

The 'signs and portents' you referred to were all written into the historical record a long time after Vespasian had come to power and actually followed a long Roman tradition of 20/20 hindsight. After you have achieved power look for something to confirm that you have been favoured by the gods in coming to power. During Augustus long reign he supported poets like Horace and Ovid who in turn wrote panegyric poetry praising his wisdom and right to rule.

 

More or less each succeeding emperor who had the chance ensured that similar works were written in their praise and supporting their 'Right to Rule'. Such propoganda was nothing new with the Flavians.

 

why did Titus use Judea as a Center Stage for his Propaganda?

 

Simply put Vespasian had risen to power through the support of the Eastern legions and had established his military credentials by defeating the Jews for which reason take the prophesies of your enemies and turn them to your own advantage QED.

 

The full quote from Tacitus 2.78 as posted on Lacus Curtis site highlights the importance attached to signs and portents:

 

78 After Mucianus had spoken, the rest became bolder; they gathered about Vespasian, encouraged him, and recalled the prophecies of seers and the movements of the stars. Nor indeed was he wholly free from such superstitious belief, as was evident later when he had obtained supreme power, for he openly kept at court an astrologer named Seleucus, whom he regarded as his guide and oracle. Old omens came back to his mind: once on his country estate a cypress of conspicuous height suddenly fell, but the next day it rose again on the selfsame spot fresh, tall, and with wider expanse than before. This occurrence was a favourable omen of great significance, as the haruspices all agreed, and promised the highest distinctions for Vespasian, who was then still a young man. At first, however, the insignia of a triumph, his consulship, and his victory over Judea appeared to have fulfilled the promise given by the omen; yet after he had gained these honours, he began to think that it was the imperial throne that was foretold. Between Judea and Syria lies Carmel: this is the name given to both the mountain and the divinity. The god has no image or temple

[Divus Iulius]

They seems to be conflicting information between these Three 'synoptic' Historians, Josephus does not Mention Titus consulting the God of Carmel, and Tacitus does not mention Josephus, and Suetonius and Josephus do not mention Basilides

 

Josephus War of the Jews

O Vespasian, although you suppose you have taken captive a forsaken Josephus, I have come as a messenger of great tidings. Had I not been sent by God to you, ..... O Caesar, are not only lord over me but over the land and the sea, and all mankind

 

Tacitus

priest Basilides, after repeated inspection of the victim's vitals, said to him: "Whatever you are planning, Vespasian, whether to build a house, or to enlarge your holdings, or to increase the number of your slaves, the god grants you a mighty home, limitless bounds, and a multitude of men."

 

The originator of the Oracles concerning Titus, was "Josephus" [Josepos], Josephus in his Wars, wrote "I have come as a Messenger, Sent by God" , Josephus was a Prophet, and Priest, and he was the First to mention that Titus would become Caesar

 

So Tacitus must of mentioned "Josephus" under the name of "Basilides", as Josephus was the Chief Prophet/Priest of the Flavians

 

Josephus Lives in Rome, and must of acquired that name, so Tacitus was referring to his Current Name at the time he was writing, also, his sons bore similar names like "Simonides" [son of Simon] (after a greek philosopher) and "Basilides" means "Son of the King", so if "Titus" adopted "Josephus", then he could be an adopted son of "Titus", and even acquired the name "Titus Flavius", so "Josephus" was "Basilides". [son of God]

 

These Flavians, also have origins in the Sabine Region of Italy, and a famous hero of those region was "Mettius Curtius", compare "Mett-i-u" with "Matt-he-w" or "Matthias" and according to Josephus, his obscure Lineage places "Matthias Curtus" has HIS Ancestor, and the earliest known ancestor of the Flavians dynasty was "Titus Flavius Petro" [Peter], and we have a Titus Flavius Simonides [son of Simon]

[Maty]

'Judea was happenchance.'

 

I would rate it as slightly higher than that. Judea and the Jews were firmly in the public mind because of the rebellion, and there was also a substantial population of Jews in Rome. So it was known that they had a very different and (to the Romans) esoteric set of religious beliefs.

 

The problem with producing standard Roman oracles is that Romans knew a lot about them and how they worked. As mentioned these oracles were produced with 20/20 hindsight (as if Nero would have given five legions to a man whom Roman oracles unambiguously named a future emperor). So the problem with saying that a Roman oracle produced these predictions is the very high chance of someone saying 'actually I was there then and this didn't happen.'

 

On the other hand, remote oracles using a tradition that was well-known but not well understood gave the Flavians a much freer hand. Especially as they had Josephus and Titus' Jewish girlfriend to make sure they got the details right.

[Divus Iulius]

Here is a Crucial passage from "Suetonius life of Vespasian, 5", this was "Before" he became Empire

 

[suetonius, Life of? Vespasian, 6]

There had spread over all the Orient an old and established belief, that it was fated at that time for men coming from Judaea to rule the world. This prediction, referring to the emperor of Rome, as afterwards appeared from the event, the people of Judaea took to themselves;

 

This passage is very Crucial of the Propaganda Vespasian Produced to get his prize of being "Emperor", they used Ancient Oracles of Judea (There Scriptures), and interpreted them, to refer to "Vespasian" and his Successors , so

"Vespasian" became a Messianic-Figure , a "Christ", then using propaganda, created a following, whom where the "Christians" (His followers), and NERO Persecuted them for Conspiracy

 

This was basically, the successor of the Pisonian Conspiracy, a few years before the Christian Persecution, whom tried to Assassinate Nero, so Nero Persecuted the Conspirators, so why would Nero worry about a small Cult, and perform a similar Persecution, but then a few moments after the 2nd Conspiracy, Nero was finally Assassinated, then his successor 'Galba", was Assassinated, then Otho undismayed by omens and prophecies committed suicide, and last of all Vitellius who was killed by VESPASIANS Troops, and finally "Vespasian" becomes Emperor died on his Death Bed [NO assassination, NO Suicide].

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisonian_conspiracy

[Melvadius]

'Judea was happenchance.'

 

OK slightly higher than happen chance but effectively it was all of a piece.

 

Judea was where the Flavians made their name so the obvious thing was for their supporters or those promoting the legitimacy of the 'current' Emperor to use Judean references IN RETROSPECT supporting legitimate descent/rights of succession.

 

IF the Flavians had made their name suppressing the Boudiccan rebellion in Britain then there would probably have been a lot more both written AND surviving about Boudicca than we have through Tacitus.

[Divus Iulius]

 

IF the Flavians had made their name suppressing the Boudiccan rebellion in Britain then there would probably have been a lot more both written about Boudicca AND surviving than we have through Tacitus.

 

 

Tacitus did present information regarding Judea, an even wrote of there Origin, which Biblical-Apologetic through-out time have tried to Prove him wrong, but until recently through Archaeology, that Tacitus might be Right.

 

Tacitus Book V

Some say that the Judaens were fugitives from the island of Crete, who settled on the nearest coast of Africa about the time when Saturn was driven from his throne by the power of Jupiter. Evidence of this is sought in the name. There is a famous mountain in Crete called Ida; the neighbouring tribe, the Idaei, came to be called Judaei by a barbarous lengthening of the national name.

[Divus Iulius]

Here is another piece of the worst piece of Propagenda that was produced and written by Josephus (Priest of Titus).

 

 

Josephus War of the Jews 6.204

[Divus Iulius]

Is it coincidence that Titus was Ordained through Prophecies and Omens from Judea, and the Stories of Jesus are linked to the Military campaigns of Jesus, and these Historians point the Origin of these Prophecies directly to "Titus Flavius Josephus" (Titus Flavius Basilides).

 

It is also coincidental that the first Christians where "Flavians" ?

 

Titus Flavius Clemens

-A Saint

-great-nephew of the Roman Emperor Vespasian.

-also known as "Pope Clements"

-Ordained by St-Peter

 

Flavia Domitilla

-A Saint

-daughter of Domitilla the Younger, and Granddaughter of Vespasian

-Wife of Clement

-She built the First Christian Catacombs

 

The term "Saint" is derived from the 'Sabine' God "Sancus", and the Flavians originated from the Sabine Region, Sancus was also known as "Semoni Sanco", and most scholars believe that Justin Martyr confused Semoni Sanco with Simon,

 

Sancus was also known as the Father of "Sabus", who appears in the Gospels as "Bar-Sabbas" [son of Sabus], and the term "Sabus" originates the term "Sabinus", so "Bar-Sabbas" can also means "Son of Sabinus" or "Joseph, the Son of Sabinus, also known as "Justus" [Titus Flavius Justus] , whom appears as "Titus Justus", in Book of Acts.

 

The name "Peter", or "Petro", is the name of the Grandfather of Titus known as "Titus Flavius Petro", so Peter was named after him, but the obvious identification of "Simon-Peter" is "Josephus", for he names his son "Simonides" [son of Simon], which is an alternative rendering of "Semonides"

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titus_Flavius_Petro

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semonides_of_Amorgos

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simonides_of_Ceos

 

Why don't people question these series of Coincidences

[steve53]

I think you are really stretching it here.

 

The "Mary" in book 6 of Wars was hardly celebrating the eucharist- she roasted and ate her own son due to the desperate situations of the seige of Jerusalem by Titus.

 

As for names, there were relatively few Roman names, probably a lot more Greek, but to make a connection between a common name and the Flavian "roots" of Christianity is tenuous.

 

Josephus, certainly, was a sly fox and catered to the egos of Vespasian and all of his sons, to his great good fortune. He would not be above making up an oracle or prophecy to please them.

 

Interestingly, in Wars who is first through the breached walls of Jotapata? Why, General Titus!

 

And who was first through the breached walls of Gamala? Titus, of course!

Edited November 1, 2013 by steve53