Relativism Vs Universal

[Spurius]

Earlier today, as I was driving into work, I heard a brief discussion about Benedict XVI and his early speeches as pope. Specifically, his strong stand against moral relativism and the tyranny of secularism and relativism.

 

I felt an echo effect going off in my head. This post is to review and discuss how the early Christian church took this stance and crushed standing Roman religions, and its comparison to today

[Ursus]

Roman polytheism was fairly tolerant of other religions, but the Romans did have certain cultural standards they enforced. Pagan Rome was neither secular nor relativist; religion infused very aspect of life, and there were definite cultural standards. It just wasn't a religion or culture that proscribed very detailed ethics for every situation such as the Jews had.

 

I do see what you are saying, though, and I kind of agree with it. The central Roman virtue was duty - duty to the state, duty to one's gods, duty to one's family. By rendering one's duty, one achieved dignitas. By serving one's community through military and political office, one achieved fame, glory and honor.

 

I think that's really the heart of Roman paganism and culture. A concern for this earthly life, a concern for one's community, a desire to achieve fame and glory by makiing one's community strong and being faithful to one's gods and family.

 

The classes that weren't fully benefiting from Roman culture came to become disenfranchised with the traditional view of things, and turned to cults and gods and ethical systems that promoted their interests. While there were some off color pagan cults that promised these people solace, Christianity was more effective in delivering its message and providing a cohesive social unit to these people.

 

Many modern governments have taken over one of the aspects that made Christianity popular - charity, in the form of welfare benefits and funded social services. There is less incentive to join a religious cult for its charitable services and social cohesiveness when the welfare state already provides that. The "enlightened" ideal these days seems to be serving the government - not for glory, honor, and military and political supremacy, but for the alleged welfare, comfort and equality of the masses. And since the government and its cronies can supposedly deliver these goods without few of the moral hang ups of a strict ethical system like Christianity, it's an attractive proposition to many people. "Christianity without the tears" as Huxley put it.

 

The secular state is Christianity's biggest competitor in the Western world. But honestly the "state" as we moderns know it is nothing like the 'state' the Romans knew. So in that respect I don't think we've come full circle.

[Ursus]

I was just informed of an article that might go well with this topic.

 

From my acquaintance Kallistos, who joined the site but never posts :

 

http://www.well.com/user/davidu/cultural.html

 

 

The article traces the effect of Hellenistic culture on religion and identity (culminating in the triumph of Christianity), then declares an even more powerful trend is working on us in the cyber age which might contend with religions like Christianity. Interesting reading, just use a grain of salt.

[Guest kallistos]

Darn! I lost my reply! I spent so much time typing it up.

 

Anyway, I'm very busy IRL and track a lot of forums, so I can't always post as much as I'd like everywhere in my limited free time.

 

However, you are right. the ultimate standard behind it all was the Mos Maiorum, which few dared to contravene, and the Pax Deorum, which even fewer went against. On top of that were certain duties and conduct expected of people of a certain rank...a certain Dignitas and Auctoritas. One simply did not behave any way one liked unless it was in accord with those expectations. Go too far, and the Censors might just drop you down a notch or two.

 

The State as the Romans knew it was both an ultra-minimalist state and yet more intrusive into life than ours. Many public services were paid for by either booty or the private fortunes of magnates and leading citizens...roads, aqueducts, stadia, ettc. Even welfare programs and the dole were financed by private individuals from their own lands, and holdings...even the Emperor provided them from is personal fief of Egypt.

 

 

This combination of ultra-liberal (old sense) politics, and the ever-pervasive sense of custom, the approval of the Gods and Ancestors and Parents, and custom is really alien to many people today. Its simply beyond our experience.

[Spurius]

I'm scanning and taking that linked article apart right now.

 

You're right, a fair lump of salt needs to be at hand but the ideas are interesting. Transcendence and temporal power...