Sweden wants to get rid of cash...

[Viggen]

Sweden was the first European country to introduce bank notes in 1661. Now it's come farther than most on the path toward getting rid of them. "I can't see why we should be printing bank notes at all anymore," says Bjoern Ulvaeus, former member of 1970's pop group ABBA, and a vocal proponent for a world without cash. The contours of such a society are starting to take shape in this high-tech nation, frustrating those who prefer coins and bills over digital money. In most Swedish cities, public buses don't accept cash; tickets are prepaid or purchased with a cell phone text message. A small but growing number of businesses only take cards, and some bank offices

[Melvadius]

Deeply disappointing report.

 

When I saw the title I thought it meant they were going to be giving away cash and if so I was quite happy to take some off their hands

 

BTW it is not just America who still use cheques - despite various attempts by the banks to do away with them completely there is still a perceived need to keep them in use in the UK for several purposes.

[Viggen]

 

BTW it is not just America who still use cheques - despite various attempts by the banks to do away with them completely there is still a perceived need to keep them in use in the UK for several purposes.

 

...really? wow every time i get a cheque from the USA to deposit here, my bank has to get the oldest worker who has seen a cheque in his lifetime. I happend to ask my cousin who is 32 about it, and he never seen a cheque in his life time. Here in austria it was a brief few years that they existed and that was a loooong time ago...

[Bryaxis Hecatee]

In Belgium cheques have disapeared except for very large payement when they are made by the bank, given to the customer who will then give them to the seller. Thus I had one such cheque when I bought my appartement. But in France it's the most common way to pay something, just after cash and before debit card (and I don't speak of credit cards, which are not so common).

[caesar novus]

Hmm, just outside Sweden I took the coastal steamer up Norway's most famous fjord (Geir.) and they announced an end to electronic card payments for a while - the fjord walls were steep enough to cut off their signal. No buying boarding tix or meals onboard without cash...

 

Thoughts on cash (in US}

 

- Needed for emergencies which can take down electricity and communications for days at a time. Especially if you don't find yourself in a well stocked home, you may really really need access to taxi or groceries. I know from experience how law and order starts to break down by darkness in these situations, and cash is your lifeline to get help from the few who can still offer services. I rarely let my cash fall below a certain amount, and maintain a breakdown of small bills that can make most any exact change.

 

- Needed for example at my local Gelato/Sorbetto factory, since they are geared to credit accounts by other businesses. Selling to individuals is a privilege you pay for in cash. This is my main use for cash at the moment - big wholesale tubs intended for gourmet restaurants. The mark of Italian authenticity is they make even the cantalope flavor exciting, never mind blackberry and dragonfruit.

 

- For small purchases electronic card fees can exceed the purchase amount or at least be an painful proportion. Some machines only take coins or cash, or customers may have no cell phone. Cash gets a bad rap in Europe because they have unwise denomination breakdowns that lead to a huge sack of coins or bills (explanation on request). Thieves can take some of your cash, but identity thieves can take bigger chunks from electronic accounts (or freeze them due to fraud alerts).

 

Thoughts on checks and electronic xfers

 

- Normally one has a free checking account which also can do free e-xfers. I realize this is becoming less available due to recent loony populist laws that prevent penalty fees on irresponsible customer acts, so they have to spread that cost to responsible ones too. Although electronic cards may be free to the user, they invoke fees which may be boomeranged back to you by government tax collectors for example. I mainly use checks for tax entities that charge extra for electronic xfers or cards.

 

Thoughts on credit and debit/atm cards

 

- For decades I have mainly used no-fee credit cards that partially rebate merchandiser fees. This can add up to a lot, because that inflow isn't taxed by fed, state, and muni. I used to have 1% rebate, and now 1.5%. I am too lazy to switch to a 2% rebate card, and there are some that occasionally give 5% back. I only use it when there is no fee to me, and I pay their bills electronically before they even notify me.

 

- I rarely use debit cards because the rules are less consumer friendly. I use (free) credit cards exactly like debit cards even though that is more costly to banks and merchants. Priorities are upside down from gov't pandering to credit (ab)users as victims where everyone else have to pay for their problems. So in terms of fees or cancelling bad transactions, ID theft or whatever it seems credit cards are best. ATM or debit cards are the way to go just for cash withdrawal - only an idiot would incur the fees for credit card cash withdrawals, especially out of your country with extortionate forex fees as well.

Edited April 12, 2012 by caesar novus

[NoJobRob]

I'm sure one day the world will be without cash, everything will be electronic, but I doubt we'll see that in our lifetime. I think there would be quite an uproar if that happened in most parts of the world. Here in Hawaii there are many people who don't even have bank accounts. Filipinos don't believe in banks. It's not uncommon for Filipinos to have thousands of dollars in cash on them. LOL Crazy, I know, but hey, what does it matter to me? As for checks, I still use them for paying certain bills. I'm paying off a medical expense from an ER visit last year, and the accounting office for the hospital doesn't do auto-debit or online bill pay, so paper checks it is. Going back to the uproar statement I made, I think many of the worlds poorer people would be unhappy with a cashless society, because how many homeless people do you see with plastic? Probably none, unless it's a government issued food/welfare card. But hey, either way it goes, there's always gold and silver coins and bullion, which I have a collection of, and I'll take that over fancy looking toilet paper any day.

[Klingan]

When I saw the title I thought it meant they were going to be giving away cash and if so I was quite happy to take some off their hands

 

I just found the title disturbing! But thanks god, getting rid of cash would be nice. I am probably, due to my temporary living arrangements, the last swede in the world who needs a 10 kr coin (about 1

[caesar novus]

"The End of Money: Counterfeiters, Preachers, Techies, Dreamers - and the Coming Cashless Society"

http://www.booktv.org/Watch/13282/The+End+of+Money+Counterfeiters+Preachers+Techies+Dreamers+and+the+Coming+Cashless+Society.aspx

 

P.S. this author sounds a bit suspect, arguing among other things that a dollar coin or euro is more wasteful than the equivilent paper bill which has to be replaced umpteen times during the life of a coin. And focusing on money thieves as if electronic thieves didn't exist. Has a familiar ideological bias, but interesting nonetheless.

Edited April 24, 2012 by caesar novus

[Onasander]

I am a bit weirded out with this thread due two three coincidences:

 

I've been learning Scandanavian history, law, philosophy, and even read thelocal.se/ several times a week, trying to figure out why.... not why anything in particular, just a big generic why. If I was to make a world atlas of the world, and named each region by how I felt about it, I would just slap a big why from Denmark to Finland, with a 'Are you serious' over Iceland and Greenland.

 

The Major coincidences:

I worked in Honolulu for about two months for a Gelato and Sherberto factory, and discovered how disgusting it is to make that nasty dairy free icecreme. The feel of the corn syrup clinging to my hands was nasty, throwing glob after glove in, and all the fake surgars. I only liked the roasted coffee gelato.

 

He hired this half Japanese girl who hired guys only to run the shop for her, no women. It was just her flirting with us, the talking the whole shift shit about every asian racial group (unless you been to Hawaii, you would never expect that they hate the Micronesians more than the Nazis hated the jews).... and then she would get bored, stir up controversy and everyone would take it out on the half phillipino delivery guy. They claimed the job was too stressful constantly, and went through alot of people, but it really was because the female manager didnt know what she was doing and would make problems. I got a new job fast, and learned how to make Gelato as a side effect. They sold it 2 bucks a cup cash, everything else was sold to businesses.

 

If that was you, you missed out on some of the stuff I was researching in Hawaii.... I would of still quit and all, but would of started a Roman History group on the side. I just got damn tired of everyone being a ethnicity first prior to being a individual. On the mainland, Im just a white guy, I don't have to be a Pennslyvania Dutch guy with Irish and Jewish and Indian heritage, with everyone stereotyping each lineage as "those stupid pennslyvania dutch, with the emotional reserve and work ethic, always just wanting to go to work, do their job, and get out'.

 

No, only the msinland, Im either a shithead or a good worker. Only the blacks speak up to remind me Im white. Like I didnt already know that.

 

As to the Swedish shock that we still use Checks, its because the concept of our currency began in Gold and Silver species, payable in said species only at tax time, but the means of getting the gold was dependant on subdividing property productivity vs workers, lenders, and traders willing to accept credits for the labor of the estates. Benjamin Franklin designed it, both the currency, and how it would behave under inflation. Alexander Hamilton then modeled our Banking system off the British.

 

As a result, we at any given point of time have multiple systems of credit and tender floating around, some specifically designed to dodge taxes like the Ibn Khaldun-Laffer Curve predicts populations will do anyway when taxation becomes too high. Our department of taxation is used to this, and uses every trick in the book to measure the worth of property when it really needs it, be it hidden or not. We have hundred of thousands of businesses, Sweden have only 10 of international note that a huge portion of its economy is tied up in.

 

It's the extreme diversity in trade that keeps checks in niches. Its legally regonized, with a 3rd party paper trail to help prove payment was made. In cash only situations, without carbon copy sheets available, operating without a check can cause a legal strain at best if two parties dont trust the other, such as paying rent between hostile parties. I was once given rent money, in cash, by a tenant who never paid on time and was about to be evicted, neither trusted the other. I solved the problem by writing two receipts on one piece of paper, having both of us sign both sides, then scribbled a giant mess of circles below, and ripped the paper right through the loops.

 

What this did was create a near impossible to fraud receipt for both parties acceptable to a common law judge who could refer to medieval standards of debt-receipts using notched wood.

 

Sweden is of the belief, as in all things, that its monoculture and smallness of scale makes minor uniformity in its systems, that are often reasonably adopted, as more advanced, liberal, progressive and enlightened over alternative systems. This isnt necessarily so. It just means its reasonable for a small state to use well a few techniques, not that using a few, or for that matter just one, is universally the wiser.

 

A example being, swedens rising inflation rate, coupled with its increasing unemployment rate, and stagnant housing market. Eventually, many people are going to have to bypass government sponsored faif currencies and housing regulations in order to find a home. If swedens main industries continue to nosedive, no matter how regulated your banks are, foreign currency traders are not going to accept Ikea giftcards and Snow as the main solid, tangible basis for assessing the real world value of money. The average swede will end up with two currencies, one to make the government happy, and one to pay for food, rent, and gas. That will probably be a foreign currency, such as the Euro.

 

Cuba experienced a similar situation of trying to juggle a capitalist currency, and a socialist. The people were trapped in the socialist, worthless version, while the tourism version was available only to those with access to tourist. A few days ago, Cuba scrapped the two, merging them into one. The alien US dollar is still the main mover in Cuba.

 

A added pain, in Canada, my Visa bank card was only useable in stores that use Visa credit, or at Bank of Scotland ATMs. That was in Montreal. I couldnt imagine the chaos someone using a questionable local Indonesian Bank card in Bolivia or Finland would be!

 

At least with bills, you can get them exchanged, coins melted, or cheques verified during business hours by a bank manager making a phonecall. In Sweden, Ild like to see how its credit card approach after industrial 3D printing crash its last few industries work. I sure the hell dont need any socialist bucks from sweden, and can get my Boxite and Reindeer sausages elsewhere. It will become a perfectly streamlined currency in a era that increasingly disfavors it.

 

The array of options in the US economy allows considerable flexibility. Bad or tyranical government can ruin the official currency, but we can still trade and swap assets via other means. Ive been contemplating melting alunimum cans and copper pipes and wire into bars just like gold for emergency currency. I always keep 1 dollar coins around too just in case Obama tanks the economy.