roman wargamer Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 an in-depth workguess by rad adenir dulay on The Legion Military Organization Structure to prove my believe that the Roman Legion have more than 6,000 soldier members in time of war. enemy have normally use the 10,000 soldiers unit per general. Julius Caesar timeline the food ration are 150,000 for the adrescens , if we will devide 150,000 into 30 legion = it will means 5,000 members per legio or, devide 25 = 6,000 soldiers. now let's look at the common accepted view , even posted at the unrv military section. here is what i believe the 3 main Battle Line , in every Cohortia each cohort have 3 manipuli of regular legioner and have 2 centuria each. Pilus Prior Pilus Posterior Princeps Prior Princeps Posterior Hastatus Prior Hastatus Posterior ........................................................................................................... i will put now the cohort standard ................................................ Pilus Prior Pilus Posterior ................................................ Princeps Prior Princeps Posterior ................................................ Cohortia Standard ( under military tribune ) ................................................ Hastatus Prior Hastatus Posterior ............................................... i will represent it into Shields..........scutum Weapons.......gladius,pugio,pilus Function........primun agmen in cohortia Position.........first main line ............................................... the contubernia formation ( team ) [/].[/].[/]. [/].[/].[/]. [/].[/].[/]. ....[/]..... ............................................... the contuduplia formation ( squad ) [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]. [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]. [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]. ................................................ the contutriplia formation ( platoon ) [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]. [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]. [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]. ...................[/].................... ................................................ i will represent it into centurion each figure means 1 contubernia [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].Pilus Prior [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].Pilus Posterior ............................................... now i will represent 3 cohort in continous line each figure means 1 contubernia [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].Pilus Prior [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].Pilus Posterior ............................................... then i will add the princeps each figure means 1 contubernia i will represent it into Shields..........clipeus Weapons.......gladius,pugio,pilus Function........princeps agmen in cohortia Position.........second main line [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].Pilus Prior [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].Pilus Posterior (/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).Princeps Prior (/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).Princeps Posterior ............................................... ............................................... now i will represent 3 cohort in continous line the Pilus Prior,Pilus Posterior ,Princeps Prior ,Princeps Posterior each figure means 1 contubernia --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].Pilus Prior [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].Pilus Posterior --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).,.(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).,.(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).Princeps Prior (/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).,.(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).,.(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).Princeps Posterior --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].Hastatus Prior [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]Hastatus Posterior =========================================================== i will openly accept rebuttal and prove of evidence of correction. next post will be about the cohorts standard ............................................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.Clodius Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 Best I can do is offer a scan from a Goldsworthy book. Good post Wargamer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman wargamer Posted April 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Best I can do is offer a scan from a Goldsworthy book. Good post Wargamer. an in-depth workguess by rad adenir dulay on The Legion Military Organization Structure coyright work claim by rad for the intent to use it in future book to be written. The Legion have 16,000 soldier member numbers in time of war. enemy have normally use the 10,000 soldiers unit per general. Julius Caesar timeline Rome have an Standing Army of 150,000 and also Acensus reservist of 150,000 if we will devide 150,000 into 30 legion = it will means 5,000 members per legio or, devide 25 = 6,000 soldiers. in my workguess...each legion have an average of 16,000 soldier in time of war. 6,000 regular legioner and 240 legiones equites 4,000 supernumerary soldier, medium armed soldier who have specialized battle function. 2,000 roman non property citizen or militias, light armed soldier 2,000 alae wings from socii 2,000 auxilia //..............................................................................................................................................................................................// erratum , ommission and explainatory notes, please forgive my typogarphical error. The Legion shall be in the Battle Formation because i am talking in time of war, so the Pilus Prior and Pilus Posterior , should be in the rear , in time of war, and the Hastatus in front. The Legion Battle Formation shall be in "triplex acies". to be represented in Cohort and Legion . Legend to be Use ...................means space holder and for between centuria ,,,,,,,,,,.........means space holder between contutriplia ______.........means space holder between manipuli ====..........means space holder between cohort [/].[/]...........means hastatus and Pilus (/).(/)...........means princeps ............................................................... Hastatus=Shields,Weapons,Function,Position. Shields..........scutum Weapons.......gladius,pugio,hasta Function.........primum agmen in cohortia Position.........first main battle line of cohors ................................................................ Princeps =Shields,Weapons,Function,Position. Shields..........clipeus Weapons.......gladius,pugio,pilus Function........princeps agmen in cohortia Position.........second main batle line of cohors ................................................................ Pilus =Shields,Weapons,Function,Position. Shields..........scutum Weapons.......gladius,pugio,pilus Function........rear agmen in cohortia Position.........triarii last main battle line of cohors ................................................................. ============================= representing cohort in battle line each figure means 1 contubernia __________________________________________________________________________ position of the velite , light and medium armed troops __________________________________________________________________________ [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]..........................................................................................Hastatus Prior ................................................................................................................................... [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]..........................................................................................Hastatus Posterior ___________________________________________________________________________ (/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/)...........................................................................................Princeps Prior .................................................................................................................................... (/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/)...........................................................................................Princeps Posterior ___________________________________________________________________________ position of the cohort standard ___________________________________________________________________________ [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]...........................................................................................Pilus Prior [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]............................................................................................Pilus Posterior ___________________________________________________________________________ ========================================================== representing Legion in battle line each figure means 1 contubernia ___________________________________________________________________________ First Acies Line of the Legion ...............cohort...................................cohort...................................cohort................... [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]..Hastatus Prior ................................................................................................................................... [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]..Hastatus Posterior ___________________________________________________________________________ (/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).,.(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).,.(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/)..Princeps Prior .................................................................................................................................... (/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).,.(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).,.(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/)..Princeps Posterior ___________________________________________________________________________ ............................................position of the cohort standard ___________________________________________________________________________ [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]..Pilus Prior [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]..Pilus Posterior ___________________________________________________________________________ Second Acies Line of the Legion ========================================================== __________________________________________________________________________ ...............cohort...................................cohort...................................cohort................... [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]..Hastatus Prior ................................................................................................................................... [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]..Hastatus Posterior ___________________________________________________________________________ (/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).,.(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).,.(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/)..Princeps Prior .................................................................................................................................... (/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).,.(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).,.(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/)..Princeps Posterior ___________________________________________________________________________ ............................................position of the cohort standard ___________________________________________________________________________ [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]..Pilus Prior [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]..Pilus Posterior ___________________________________________________________________________ Third Acies Line of the Legion ========================================================== ___________________________________________________________________________ ...............cohort...................................cohort...................................cohort................... [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]..Hastatus Prior ................................................................................................................................... [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]..Hastatus Posterior ___________________________________________________________________________ (/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).,.(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).,.(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/)..Princeps Prior .................................................................................................................................... (/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).,.(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).,.(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/).(/)..Princeps Posterior ___________________________________________________________________________ ............................................position of the cohort standard ___________________________________________________________________________ [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]..Pilus Prior [/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].,.[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]..Pilus Posterior ___________________________________________________________________________ .............................................[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]...............................................Hastatus Prior .............................................[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]...............................................Hastatus Posterior .............................................[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]...............................................Princeps Prior .............................................[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]...............................................Princeps Posterior .............................................[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]...............................................Pilus Prior .............................................[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]...............................................Pilus Posterior .............................................[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]...............................................Primus Pilus .............................................[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]...............................................Preatoria .............................................[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]...............................................Preatoria .............................................[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/].[/]...............................................preatoria .............................................position of the 1st Cohort ___________________________________________________________________________ i corrected the error and adds only the 1st cohort i will openly accept rebuttal. thanks , P..Clodius try to add the equietes in the nex visit. ........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman wargamer Posted April 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 Best I can do is offer a scan. an in-depth workguess by rad adenir dulay on The Legion Military Organization Structure coyright work claim by rad for the intent to use it in future book to be written. The Legion have 16,000 soldier member numbers in time of war. enemy have normally use the 10,000 soldiers unit per general. Julius Caesar timeline ============================ Hastatus = Heavy infantry Shields..........scutum Weapons.......gladius,pugio,hasta Function.........primum acies in cohortia Position.........first battle line of cohors ................................................................ Princeps = Heavy Infantry Shields..........clipeus Weapons.......gladius,pugio,pilus Function........secundae acies in cohortia Position.........second battle line of cohors ................................................................ Pilus = Most Heavy Infantry Shields..........scutum Weapons.......gladius,pugio,pilus Function........novissimum acies in cohortia Position.........last battle line of cohors triarii ============================= representing the Legion in Battle Line each 1 figure means 3 contubernium , or contutriplia , peditata turmae ============================== The Accensus is Added Accensus = Medium Infantry Shields..........aspis koile Weapons.......gladius,pugio,hastae Function........"runners" , skirmisher Position.........front battle line of the cohors _________________________________________________________________________ 0/...0/...0/..=..0/...0/...0/..=..0/...0/...0/............Cursores Prior ...................................................................... 0/...0/...0/..=..0/...0/...0/..=..0/...0/...0/............Cursores Posterior __________________________________________________________________________ Primum Agmen Line of the Legion ( Primary Column ) .....cohort..............cohort..............cohort.......... __________________________________________________________________________ Primum Acies in cohortia ================ [/]...[/]...[/]..=..[/]...[/]...[/]...=..[/]...[/]...[/].......Hastatus Prior ........................................................................ [/]...[/]...[/]..=..[/]...[/]...[/]...=..[/]...[/]...[/].......Hastatus Posterior ___________________________________________________________________________ Secundae Acies in cohortia ================= (/)...(/)...(/)..=..(/)...(/)...(/)..=..(/)...(/)...(/)........Princeps Prior ........................................................................ (/)...(/)...(/)..=..(/)...(/)...(/)..=..(/)...(/)...(/)........Princeps Posterior ___________________________________________________________________________ .................position of the cohort standard ___________________________________________________________________________ Novissimum Acies in cohortia =================== [/]...[/]...[/]..,..[/]..,..[/]...[/]...[/]...,..[/]...[/]...[/].......Pilus Prior ............................................................................... [/]...[/]...[/]..,..[/]..,..[/]...[/]...[/]...,..[/]...[/]...[/].......Pilus Posterior ___________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ Secundae Agmen Line of the Legion ( Secondary Column ) ....cohort..............cohort...............cohort.......... ___________________________________________________________________________ Primum Acies in cohortia ================ [/]...[/]...[/]..=..[/]...[/]...[/]...=..[/]...[/]...[/].......Hastatus Prior ......................................................................... [/]...[/]...[/]..=..[/]...[/]...[/]...=..[/]...[/]...[/].......Hastatus Posterior ___________________________________________________________________________ Secundae Acies in cohortia ================= (/)...(/)...(/)..=..(/)...(/)...(/)..=..(/)...(/)...(/)........Princeps Prior ......................................................................... (/)...(/)...(/)..=..(/)...(/)...(/)..=..(/)...(/)...(/)........Princeps Posterior ___________________________________________________________________________ .......................position of the cohort standard ___________________________________________________________________________ Novissimum Acies in cohortia =================== [/]...[/]...[/]..=..[/]...[/]...[/]...=..[/]...[/]...[/].......Pilus Prior ......................................................................... [/]...[/]...[/]..=..[/]...[/]...[/]...=..[/]...[/]...[/].......Pilus Posterior ___________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ Novissimum Agmen Line of the Legion ( Rear Column ) .....cohort.............cohort...............cohort.......... ____________________________________________________________________________ Primum Acies in cohortia ================ [/]...[/]...[/]..=..[/]...[/]...[/]...=..[/]...[/]...[/].......Hastatus Prior ........................................................................ [/]...[/]...[/]..=..[/]...[/]...[/]...=..[/]...[/]...[/].......Hastatus Posterior ___________________________________________________________________________ Secundae Acies in cohortia ================= (/)...(/)...(/)..=..(/)...(/)...(/)..=..(/)...(/)...(/)........Princeps Prior ........................................................................ (/)...(/)...(/)..=..(/)...(/)...(/)..=..(/)...(/)...(/)........Princeps Posterior ___________________________________________________________________________ .................position of the cohort standard ___________________________________________________________________________ Novissimum Acies in cohortia =================== [/]...[/]...[/]..=..[/]...[/]...[/]...=..[/]...[/]...[/].......Pilus Prior ........................................................................ [/]...[/]...[/]..=..[/]...[/]...[/]...=..[/]...[/]...[/].......Pilus Posterior ___________________________________________________________________________ as you will notice ,the represenation are now in 4 Major Column. i stand to be corrected. please forgive my typoghraphical error, ommission and erratum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman wargamer Posted April 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 Q? P.Clodius says Wargamer, you're way off on those numbers. A legion constituted approximately 5500 men. A= here it is all begun. in my workguess...each legion have an average of 16,000 soldier in time of war. 6,000 regular legioner and 240 legiones equites 4,000 supernumerary soldier, medium armed soldier who have specialized battle function. 2,000 roman non property citizen or militias, light armed soldier 2,000 alae wings 2,000 auxilia Q? Primus Pilus reply Seems he may be including attached auxilia? While estimates of auxilia strength varies , a ratio of 1 to 1 (auxiliary to legionary) is safe. Using that assumption. 6,000 legioner + 6,000 auxilia = 12,000 soldier a=rad , enemy normally use the ( 10 , 100 , 1,000 , ) 10,000 soldier per general unrv post at the miliary section ==================== The basic structure of the army is as follows: in comparative study guesswork Contubernium: (tent group) consisted of 8 men. =rad 9 soldier per contubernium ( in a 9 numbered formation like the 9 number domino ) as the agmen quadratum formation or the legiones triplex acies Centuria: (century) was made up of 10 contubernium with a total of 80 men commanded by a centurion =rad 9 soldier per contubernium X 9 contubernium in every centuriae = 81 soldier per centuriae Cohorts: (cohort) included 6 centuriae . In addition the first cohort was double strength but with only 5 centuriae instead of the normal 6. Legio: (Legion) consisted of 10 cohorts. unrv= 80 men per centuriae X 6 centuriae = 480 men x 9 cohorts = 4,320 men rad = 81 men per centuriae X 6 centuriae = 486 men x 9 cohorts = 4,374 men unrv= 06 centuriae X 9 cohors = 54 + 10 centuriae from 1st cohors = 64 ? any comment on this note it could be that cohors praetoria is not really counted with the regular legiones centurion of 60. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- but i will temporarily shift to my opening premise in the Roman Empire section , titled roman civilization. note: erratum , ommission and explainatory notes, please forgive my typoghraphical error. accensus hastae should be read the "dory makron" ============================== The Accensus Legiones Phalangirarius / Legion Phalanx ------------------------------------------------------ Accensus = Medium Infantry ( did not meet property requirements ) Shields..........aspis koile Weapons.......gladius,pugio,dory makron Function........"runners" , skirmisher Position.........front battle line of the cohors ------------------------------------------------------- Accensus = Light Infantry ( head count ) Shields..........aspis platea Weapons.......gladius,pugio,dory Function........"runners" , skirmisher Position.........front battle line of the cohors _________________________________________________________________________ Cursores Agmen Line of the Legion ( Front Column ) Assault / Skirmisher 1_o/.o/.o/..=..o/.o/.o/..=..o/.o/.o/............Antecursores Prior 2_o/.o/.o/..=..o/.o/.o/..=..o/.o/.o/............Antecursores Posterior 3_0/.0/.0/..=..0/.0/.0/..=..0/.0/.0/............Cursores Prior 4_0/.0/.0/..=..0/.0/.0/..=..0/.0/.0/............Cursores Posterior _________________________________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.