Need Major Help!

[Guest lovelyme]

could someone help me with this question....

 

What was the most significant factor for the downfall of the Roman Empire??

[Germanicus]

lovelyme, you might actually have to do some research on this one. There are many differing opinions, and you're going to have to make up your own mind. Maybe just start by reading some of the information on this site.

[P.Clodius]

There was NO single factor, there were many factors all intricately connected. But yes, I would do what Germanicus suggests. This site is an excellent source of research. Start here!!!

[Q Valerius Scerio]

Christians, corruption, barbarians, and lower taxes but higher military spending (hrm... sounds vaguely familiar)

[Ursus]

could someone help me with this question....

 

What was the most significant factor for the downfall of the Roman Empire??

 

What the above posters have said has merit, take it to heart.

 

But consider what some historians have said (I'm going to paraphrase Eugene Weber here): The Roman Empire was simply too darn big, with too many unproductive areas sucking the life out of productive areas. It was bound to fall.

 

Instead of asking why it fell, we should ask why it held together for as long as it did. After all, the Romans held together their vast empire with an army that was scarcely bigger than what Medieval France had at its disposal. So we should consider how the Romans got so much bang for their buck, so to speak. Only then can we understand how and why the house of cards finally collapsed.

[Germanicus]

Wow, that point you mention Ursus regarding the troop numbers involved is so true - and really interesting. Am I right in thinking around 25 standing legions ? I guess in varied slightly throughout the empires history.

[roman wargamer]

in thinking around 25 standing legions ? I guess in varied slightly throughout the empires history.

it is the roman aristocrat family rivalry and infighting,

they killed more senator themselve in civil wars,

in Octavian time alone maybe 300 senators,

than what Hannibal have done in Cannae, only 80 senators.

 

25 standing legions?

 

i have been baffled in the numbers of soldier members in the legion.

 

in my workguess...each legion have an average of 16,000 soldier in time of war.

6,000 regular legioner and 240 legiones equites

4,000 supernumerary soldier, medium armed soldier who have specialized battle function.

2,000 roman non property citizen or militias, light armed soldier

2,000 alae wings from socii

2,000 auxilia

[P.Clodius]

Wargamer, you're way off on those numbers. A legion constituted approximately 5500 men. As for the fall of the Roman empire, one could argue that it didn't really fall at all. It evolved!! Look at the institutions around you, the architecture, the very laws under which you live.

[Primus Pilus]

Seems he may be including attached auxilia?

 

Regardless, fucntional Roman military sizes approximated 150,000 men -- 28 standard legions (25 under Augustus after the Varus disaster). That number increased to 30 depending on the time period. While estimates of auxilia strength varies from scholar to scholar, a ratio of 1 to 1 (auxiliary to legionary) is safe. Using that assumption, the standing Roman military strength would approximate 300,000 men at any given time in the imperial period.

[roman wargamer]

i will try to recall my old notes...on legion member numbers.

[Ursus]

Germanicus:

Wow, that point you mention Ursus regarding the troop numbers involved is so true - and really interesting. Am I right in thinking around 25 standing legions ? I guess in varied slightly throughout the empires history.

[Marcus Regulus]

I guess it depends on what part of Rome you are talking about. I personally believe that the Roman empire ever really died completely until the Middle ages. It evolved and adapted over the years. Republic to Imperium, to divided Empire (East and West). etc. The Byzantine Empire was definitely Roman. On and on it goes.

 

As to what caused it to struggle -- how about existence. It could be said that its struggles made it strong as well as weak. it greatly depended on how it adapted after those struggles. Like all civilizations I would say.

 

As for the military part of the problem the fact remains that legions existed through the republic and Empire and they built both. A nation without a strong military will be the slave of others. Rome was no slave to anyone becasue of their military. It was when they forgot to remain strong that they became a nation to which one could dictate terms. The price they paid for legions, whatever the cost was the price they were paying for freedom from others and to determine their own destiny. I think any price paid on such things is worth the cost.

[Germanicus]

Part of the problem was this ever increasing cost though, was it not ? Not that the military kept expanding, but the donatives payed by successive emperors to each soldier to retain their loyalty and the throne undermined many of the principles the rebublic and then the emipre were founded on ? But once again, just one of a large number of factors.

[Honorius]

there are many reasons as everyone has said already but i read that the Western empire collapsed because much of the military and government were moved to Constantinople. Also the use of legionaires declined aswell and the roman army began to center around the use of cavalry, after adrianople....The barbarians swelled and expanded into the heart of the empire..because of the Huns-Attila. Theodosius also allowed the goths cross the Danube and settle.....there are many other reasons. But i guess i have said enough

[roman wargamer]

Wargamer, you're way off on those numbers. A legion constituted approximately 5500 men.

in Julius Caesar time , he double the food ration into 300,000 .

and on Octavian time , he return it again into 150,000 .

 

the Adcrescens , are soldier offsprings that receive free food ration even before they take actual military active service.

 

if we will devide 150,000 into 30 legion = it will means 5,000 members per legio or, devide 25 = 6,000 soldiers.

 

now let's look at the common accepted view , even posted at the unrv military section.

( for limitation and my qoute , timeline Caesar )

 

here is what i believe the 3 main Battle Line , in every Cohortia

each cohort have 3 manipuli of regular legioner and have 2 centuria each.

 

Pilus Prior

Pilus Posterior

 

Princeps Prior

Princeps Posterior

 

Hastatus Prior

Hastatus Posterior

...........................................................................................................

i will put now the cohort standard

 

Pilus Prior

Pilus Posterior

................................................

Princeps Prior

Princeps Posterior

................................................

 

Cohortia Standard

( under military tribune )

................................................

Hastatus Prior

Hastatus Posterior

...............................................

 

but because i beleive it is more approprite in the Legion Section i will post it also there in more detailed ways.