Cynicism and the Common People

[Centurion-Macro]

I was discussing with a friend today about H.H Scullard's From the Gracchi to Nero, and there was one question that stumped both him and me. He mentioned how some Cynics were apparently street preachers, which got us thinking. Most philosophies were for the aristocracy, because they had access to them. But if the Cynics preached to the commoners, does this mean that the Cynics could have gained support from the lower classes?

 

Certainly I feel that they could have drummed up a bit of support with their theories, but I can find no references to it. But I wanted to ask you chaps first as you are far more informed than me about this stuff, especially religion in where I am still learning a great deal.

 

Thank you for your help!

[Gaius Paulinus Maximus]

The Cynics would not have appealed to the aristocracy at all because they regarded virtue as the only requirement for living a fulfilling life. The Cynics believed that to achieve this state of being that you should shun all wealth, titles, reputation etc. That's most definately not how the aristocracy rolled!

 

Cynicism was basically the early greek equivalent of Roman stoicism.

[Centurion-Macro]

The Cynics would not have appealed to the aristocracy at all because they regarded virtue as the only requirement for living a fulfilling life. The Cynics believed that to achieve this state of being that you should shun all wealth, titles, reputation etc. That's most definately not how the aristocracy rolled!

 

Cynicism was basically the early greek equivalent of Roman stoicism.

And so they may have appealed to the common citizens?

[DecimusCaesar]

Cynics might have been mocked for their strange customs during times of prosperity for Rome, but I think some Common People might have found some aspects of Cynicism appealing - especially their attitudes towards property and wealth - during bad times. It seems that Cynicism became popular during the First century AD, but was seen with suspicion by the upper members of society.

[Maty]

Just the fact that 'cynic' comes from the Greek word for 'dog' should tell us something about the attitude.

 

This is the basis of the emperor Vespasian's response when he was insulted by the cynic Demetrius. Instead of taking offence Vespasian simply murmured 'Bad dog!' and walked on.

[barca]

I was discussing with a friend today about H.H Scullard's From the Gracchi to Nero, and there was one question that stumped both him and me. He mentioned how some Cynics were apparently street preachers, which got us thinking. Most philosophies were for the aristocracy, because they had access to them. But if the Cynics preached to the commoners, does this mean that the Cynics could have gained support from the lower classes?

 

Certainly I feel that they could have drummed up a bit of support with their theories, but I can find no references to it. But I wanted to ask you chaps first as you are far more informed than me about this stuff, especially religion in where I am still learning a great deal.

 

Thank you for your help!

 

 

Here's my opinion:

 

I would say no, it didn't appeal to the common people. New non-mainsream philosophies or religions seem to appeal to those people who have everything but are bored or feel unfullfilled in their lives. For example Buddha came from the aristocracy and turned himself away from the materialism of the world. The common people are less interested in spiritual fullfillment and more interested acquiring those things that they don't have, whether it is money, prestige, power, or whatever.

[Ursus]

I would say no, it didn't appeal to the common people. New non-mainsream philosophies or religions seem to appeal to those people who have everything but are bored or feel unfullfilled in their lives. For example Buddha came from the aristocracy and turned himself away from the materialism of the world. The common people are less interested in spiritual fullfillment and more interested acquiring those things that they don't have, whether it is money, prestige, power, or whatever.

 

I agree.

 

Furthermore .... did any philosophy really appeal to the commoners? I think you had to have a certain education and certain amount of leisure time to appreciate the heady speculation of Hellenic philosophers. I don't think peasants toiling in the fields or townsmen working in their shops would be really inclined for that sort of thing.

[Onasander]

Yes, many Cynic Philosophers preached. Many didn't. I've compiled the largest list of Cynic Philosophers I've seen period, and began to organize the together at first as a Appendix to my own work on Cynicism called Ontological Oceans..... however it quickly became massive and I may publish it apart as The Cynic Encyclopedia, focusing on various Cynics ancient, medieval, and modern. I am also including known first person quotes of each thinker if their work survives. If I do ultimately separate the two, Ill charge more for the Encyclopedia given its a massive pain in the ass, and is of quality expectations you would expect of scholarship from a Ivy League university. Whats holding me up the most is many works I need have never been translated into English, and some also deal with Pyronnhist, Stoic, Platonic and Aristotelian thought, and my Latin sucks horribly.

 

I shouldnt be translating these works, given my skill level, cant even pronounce the words, but I have a duty to Philosophy, and I can point out even if I do it poorly, Ill still be the first. Im hoping to save up enough cash to hire a latin speaking assistant to format the texts word for word to speed up the translation effort, I do it in little spurts of manic activity, followed by loathing, indifference, and high yet misplaced hopes.

 

The Cynics were the masterminds of Ancient Philosophy and literature, if you ever read from a Anthology, or Satire..... you've been influenced by the Cynics.... they are both inventions of the school of Gadara Cynicism. Many point out most of Jesus' teachings show a strong and obvious inclination towards Cynicism, and he wasn't born that far away from Gadara, and the oldest Christian text, the Dadachi, shows a strong emphasis on the early Christian community on not just prophets, but when one wasn't available, homeless to preach in early Christianity.

 

We are left with a situation where either Jesus, accepted as the Son of God, creator of the Cosmos and Man, becomes so enamored with Cynicism that he adopts it, or of Jesus, a man of flesh and bone, lacking divinity, yet becomming the most successful preacher and theologian in the history of man, with half the world's population following him in some note or fashion, asserting many ideas and principles central to Cynicism. Either way you cut it, it's deeply impressive.

 

During the Roman era, most of the Fragments and Essays we have are biographical, Epistal, or Rhethorical, often downright confrontational and challenging of Imperial Vice, often to the Emperor's face in public. The last Roman of note to lead a open and obvious Cynic Lifestyle was St. Simeon The Holy Fool, who's feast day is still celebrated in the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches. He lived in Roman Syria in the 7th century.

 

As to the belief that wealthy Romans wouldn't be attracted to Cynicism, this is incorrect. Cynicism from its beginnings attracted the upper classes, Alexander the Great a obvious admirer of Diogenes, Crates of Thebes giving up his wealth (not a Roman, but as a example replicated often during the Christian monastic era). Petronius' Satyricon, the first Novel, follows the naughty exploits of two homosexual art Students who commit every disturbed sexual vice known to the Romans, in a story arch of gradual pain, lost, and enlightenment..... it appears to have a similar moral enlightenment arch to it like 'Monkey King/Journey to the West', hence who this otherwise 'evil work' was quoted without issue by educated Christians, as well as the moral rectification of the sexual practices to something more conservatively Roman. That work's main audience was the Roman elite, including Nero.

 

The split of the Cynic/Stoic schools was Zeno.... who in terms of public as well as Royal opinion was more of a Cynic than the local parasites claiming to be Cynics were. He practiced hard work and humility, and more importantly, left a physical location and bona fide discipleship that emphasised clear headed resolve over the cynic style in vogue of showmanship, direct confrontation, and begging. However, there is more in common between the two traditions than seperate, and much interchangeable. I have many Stoic acquaintances, ones who claim to be and that I accept. The bulk are frauds, quick to inflame and dispute. Its much easier to decide who is a stoic, and who is not, given how long the tradition was bona fide passed on and rooted around the hard to nail down Cynic school, which was based less on tradition than cognitive change imposed via a lifestyle. There is much less range of differation acceptable for a Stoic than a Cynic.

 

A example being, outside of my Rhetorical Style, outwardly there is little to differentiate my behavior from a Stoic, but a fellow contemporary Cynic, the Hungarian Istvan Bortos, who eats his own shit and glass onstage, could never pass as a Stoic. However, though I may be critical of his behavior (which is what Cynics do, we judge people, even each other), I understand the psychology and tradition of what he is doing. We are both Cynics, but opposite spectrums of aspects of its historic and cognitive divide.

 

The works translated into English, 'The Cynic Epistles', is one of the few Roman resources we have on Roman Cynics that was used and accepted by Roman era Cynics. And it's all mostly psuedo-biographical, which has turned ironically most historians distainfully away from it as a legitimate source for Cynicism. This is a horrible misconception of how Cynicism operates..... it never was a bona-fide tradition, nor a prejorative 'lifestyle and not a philosophy'. Cynicism, like Hendonism and Zen Buddism, was a doctrine less of Theory than a range of Cognitive Stated achived through a yoke of means. Reading and quoting Zen Buddism, no matter how good you are at it, doesn't make you a Zen Buddhist, sitting and stairing, trying to calm the mind does. It changes your perspective.

 

The importance of The Cynic Epistles was that though it was likely a product of a academic controlled literary school, it modelled itself on observations of Roman Cynics who could be observed preaching on the street, who preached on topics from many different schools in a mismash. Cynics tend to be exceptionally well read, moreso than our academic counterparts, these are works the Roman Cynics would of stumbled across and emulated themselves.

 

I myself owned a copy during my days in San Francisco and Hawaii. It was a good reference, and showed how far our minds could range even in Ancient times.

 

One of my favorite thinkers, Archimedes, lead a very Cynic lifestyle and even death, but is remembered for his Mathematics alone. I myself have been so destitute and impoverished I would work on my Philosophy of Size in the sand below a seawall I often times slept hidden on top of. I would wake up, looking down to see the tide was in, the splash nearly hitting my eyes. Shit will piss you off, and the Barnes and Noble Nook I foolishly bought couldnt draw despite its touchscreen. After a falling tree crushed my worthless nook, I wasn't feeling at much of a loss to it, it let me email people, and read books, but had to be charged constantly. I always had sand, my mind, and countless ideas to work through.

 

The Cynic tradition carried on, but in three forms. 1) In the Persian empire, into the middle ages of two different sects, one drunk, one sober hobo mystics still doing the naughty Cynic gag, while producing some awesome poetry.

 

2) The Desert Fathers soaked alot of people interested in Cynic lifestyles into Christian Monasticism. It ranged from single cell anchorite lifestles to various levels of social living, with common monikers like 'poeman' (the shepard). Many different monastic rules were developed in the west, only one for the eastern churches. They differ from similar groups like the Dervishes, who too have links to Cynicism. In Christianity, we also had varients, like St. Symeon the Fool who would randomly just trip you while you walk, as well as Simeon Stylites and similar saints who would live in insane conditions on top of pillars and tubs, sometimes in sight of one another cursing each other out arguing theological and philosophical disputes.

3) The Fool/Court Jester

Cynics study social relations and impulse..... prior to Ibn Khaldun, if you wanted a sociologist, you would have to find a Cynic or a Court Jester. It's much less of a choice than you might think, but rather a side effect of the yoke of experienced lifestyle Cynics experience while learning not just to survive, but also restructure themselves to being able to endure, expand their thought, and remain on a positive trajectory mentally and physically. It's only here that the various random threads of Cynic behavior, such as independence, feined madness, aloof independance, snd emphasis on hardship of exercise, start tying into other aspects, such as sharpness of wit, lightening fast rebukes to philosophical and social assertions, and deep analytic concentration. These are functions under direct control or immediately related to feedback loops associated with the Supplementry Motor Area of the brain. As a INTJ, I had the wit to a extent prior to becomming a Cynic, but it really came out afterwords. It's a left hemispheric feedback loop associated with the SMA. Think the comedians Robin Williams or Jim Carrey (Jim was even homeless for a while). It's a sharp, penetrating, often twisted form of Comedy that takes the court politics, intrigue, and common opinion all into one, and it can be traced back to the tradition left be the Cynics.

 

Now, note not every homeless person is a Cynic, infact, overwhelmingly most are not. Typically, most homeless are scared and scornful of their status, intime accepting or indifferent. Only the rarest of the rare choose to be homeless, and of them only a few are conscious of the Cynic tradition. Most Anarchists are not Cynics. A Cynic isn't inherently opposed to hierarchy, but they will analyses, test, and offer rebuttles against aspects of it.

 

The number of Cynics I've met I can count on one hand. None in San Francisco (occupy wallstreet happened late into my stay there, ZERO in the San Francisco camp, and I checked several times. One guy was evolving in the general direction, but was spiteful still about his lot in life), one in Hawaii, and curiously a few I found by pure accident in Folsom, California, one of whom approached me stairing confused at a map in my hike across california heading to lake tahoe! I couldnt take him on, but gave him directions to San Francisco, safe places, how to find work and philosophy groups even. It was funny as hell, we were trying to give each other stuff, he even tried to give me his bike after I told him how many days walk it was to San Francisco down Route 160.

 

So in my case, I do less preaching and converting than confronting, laboring, talking things through with people, and theorizing. I even rejected taking on a new fellow Cynic as a student. I have had one student, and he is a Vietnam Vet, and he has better accomplishments than me in several respects (he had the misfortune when living in montana as being arrested as the Unibomber because of how wild he looked and his political activism, they caught the real guy and released him, who said F it and moved to Santa Monica then Hawaii.) I also tried unsuccessfully to recruit a homeless vet who built a rambo bunker on a cliff in hawaii...... he had no intelligence, though remarkable endurance and fortitude.

 

I also started a Philosophy Group in Hawaii, but never once pushed Cynicism. I always came well dressed, looked like your average middle class professor type.... its the style I learned for such meetings in san francisco so kept it as neutral given my role as moderator. I often would work security in really, really expensive establishments for high in clients, so knew how to clean up after a night spent exposed to the rain.

 

Only place I force it is in Philosophy Groups. I dont see the point in converting the world and gaining followers. Cynicism comes and goes, is already deeply saturated in the western world, with equivelents in India and China, and even if it died out completely will reassert itself in time. Its not faith in Cynicism, merely noting history and the Human Condition. In social settings, Im more interested in seeing men becomming better thinkers or any kind of philosopher than forcing my outlook. Hell, is it even a good thing to try, we live in a tender body age, many would pointlessly die.

 

I have mildly tutored non cynic philosophy, usually for free. Diogenes was known to take students who left the Cynic lifestyle and still supported their old teacher. Demonax had Lucian. Aristotle Alexander the Great. Jesus close friends with Lazurus, if not a disciple. Most of the talk against the Rich and Powerful was against the impulse desire complex of being lured into wealth, title, and position under someone, usually a persian emperor who didnt give a flying F about Cynicism in itself. It was seen as a perverted and anthetical to do that, but so long as the rich person/king wasn't a persian, they always seemed accepting of them, even pestered them to death. It was Zeno who broke the ice here. I doubt any Cynic could come up with a excuse for dodging a summons by Marcus Aurelius, a philosopher king and practitioner of a closely related philosophy.

[Onasander]

I should also point out, though encouraged, its not necessary to give up all your possessions and go hobo, I've done so twice, but had 4 years training as a Arctic Infantry Paratrooper. Many, including Diogenes and myself currently, live indoors. The barrel story is believed to only of happened for a while in Diogenes life, and he never completely gave up all his possessions. I assure you, had he traveled north of pontus into Ukraine instead of west to Athens, Diogenes would of had a large cold weather kit. A Anarchist I unfortunately know spent this past winter in Wisconsin..... he started it off it a cheap pop tent on concrete next to the railroad tracks in the woods, ended it under blankets in a abandoned cabin, he now has a house and old lincoln contenential and is studying on a nine year plan in college to repair factory robots, so he will always have a job once all the factories are automated. That gives me a 8 year deadline to design a video mounted wheeled arm that can allow super cheap repair workers in Botswana fix the device for much less. F that damn racist socialists, Ill see to it he doesnt get to work again, even if it requires me to sink the global work force into oblivion in the process.