Austria: Archeologists excavate 'sensational' gladiator amphit

[Melvadius]

I know this is probably a really dumb question but...why is it "underground"? What happens to ruins of this magnitude that cause them to disappear under the earth? Were they demolished, used as a quarry for building materials and then filled in with earth?

 

The answer is probably 'yes'. The ruins which have been discovered are not the amphitheatre which is a much mor emassive structure but the smaller buildings in close proximity to it. What the geophysical survey will have identified is the places where walls originaly stood, even if the walls themselves and/or the stone foundations have been robed away or else if originally the walls were wooden long since burnt or rotted away.

 

The process of vegetation growing and soil accumulating or slidding from other parts of a site can lead to quite serious build ups of soil over a site in a suprisingly short period of time. We had almost six inches accumulate in one place in our back garden near where we fed the birds and grass grew on the seed debris.

[Crispina]

Thanks. I never thought about them possibly being wooden structures, afterall it WAS a long time ago. I guess I'm just fascinated by finds like this. You're absolutely right about vegetation taking over sites. I found the stone floor of a trellis structure I built years ago and had collapsed. I spent half a day removing layers of grass and dirt. In order to keep it uncovered, I have to be diligent.

[Bryaxis Hecatee]

Either that or, as the area is in a river (Danube ?) flood plain, it got silted over by the river (see what Viggen said about his recent visit to the place, I think he mentionned that fact)

[Melvadius]

I would agree that flooding is definately another possible causal factor in soil building up at this site but the corolloray of that is that often rivers are a danger to archaeology through erosion of banks and/or cutting of new channels across flood plains.

 

There also is a few other possible causal factors depending on the site which can include:

 

The 'French' factor - where constant manuring can lead to extensive build-up of soil to the, possibly apocrophyl, extent that some land is reputed to require returning to the original soil level at the end of a lease. At one site I dug we had to dig down through 6 feet of soil that was a result of agricultural practices which eroded a small hill and also a build up soil through manuring over a six hundred year period before the site was built over and stabalised in the 18th century.

 

Greek effect - Liquefaction of soil after an earthquake such as Helike which sank deep beneath the modern soil level.

[Viggen]

here again the google maps link of the remains of the amphitheatre... and

http://maps.google.a...adius=0.39&z=17

 

I would assume after reading up on the news report that the circled place west of the theatre is the find in question

 

[Melvadius]

Not having access to the German original articles by comparing the various images, including the survey amchine photograph, in der Standard I am tempted to suggest the location may actually be slightly further north and east towards the edge of the big field.

 

I'm wondering if it may actually lie more toward where Viggen has written 'possible site'. However without comparing other aerial photographs showing a different state of vegetation or actually visiting the site to see the fall of the land it is difficult to be certain.

[Germanicus]

I though of you guys when I saw this, you probably already know about it.

 

http://www.theage.com.au/world/gladiator-school-a-sensational-find-20110906-1jvrw.html

 

Germanicus

[Melvadius]

I though of you guys when I saw this, you probably already know about it.

 

http://www.theage.com.au/world/gladiator-school-a-sensational-find-20110906-1jvrw.html

 

Germanicus

Well yes we did, so Topics merged

[caldrail]

There's all sorts of reasons. Dirt or sand can be carried by wind over the centuries, floods can deposit silt, foliage decays and forms new layers of soil, volcanic debris can quickly bury a site, earthquakes or tectonic movement can raise of lower land level, and over time, debris from beyond the atmosphere can settle (tons of it arrives in small doses every day).

[Medusa]

A nice link in English to the find matching nearly the link of Der Standard:

 

http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archives/09/2011/gladiator-school-discovered-in-carnuntum

 

What fascinates me about this is that this is the first ludus North of the Alps which has been discovered. So far the scholars assumed that only itinerant gladiator troupes traveled the provinces to get gigs.

[Viggen]

here the report form the "R

RGZM_certification_scholz-1.doc

[Melvadius]

here the report form the "R

[GhostOfClayton]

It may be aanother manifestation of my office using an older operating system but although I can read the text from this PC if there are images, as the text seems to indicate, then they cannot be accessed so I'll need to try again tonight from another PC

 

I think there are just textual references to images.

[Melvadius]

Having checked the original site; since the images listed as available of rindividual download don't appear numbered in this way I'm now wondering if the text refers to information in one of the zipped files which are also available for download.

 

I did try downloading the 'zipped' Raw Materials 'LBI ArchPro Folder' in case that contained the underlying archaeological files but for some reason it took forever and gave no indication of either how big it was or how long it would take to download. I therefore killed the download and I'll have another try tonight to see if it is more responsive then.

[Viggen]

that file is 157 MB maybe it just takes a while?

http://carnuntum.7reasons.at/