Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus

[Germanicus]

Please fill me in on the tactical brilliance of this apparently under rated general. I know about the pirates swept from the middle sea, I know when he had the troop numbers and financial backing he could get the job done. But I'd like to know about some brilliant tactics used by the man that won the day for him when nothing else would. Didn't Quintus Sertorius run rings around him in Spain ?

[pompeius magnus]

Since I consider this a direct call out to myself I must answer. Pompeius was not an underrated general, but was cast into the shadow of the brillant Caesar. The main reason why Pompey was beaten by Sertorius at first was arrogance. After his early victories with his fathers army, he thought he could not be beaten. Sertorius was a brillant, often overlooked, general as a pupil of Marius. Pompey was shocked at being beaten by this general. He turned things around with organization. Pompey was brillant at organizing as Caesar was just a born general, if there ever was one. Sertorius couldn't compete with the organizational skills of Pompey and some internal dissention led to his assassination. Pompey executed brillantly against the pirates, whiping them out of the mediterranean. Pompey finished off Lucullus' campaign, which he could not finish due to disputed and family problems in Rome, asside from being hated by Caesar, whom was a young officer in his legions. In the end, Pompey allowed himself to be influenced by the Boni and was reluctant to go to war with Caesar. In the end Pompey was defeated in a reluctant battle, then fled to Egypt and was shamefully killed by the Egyptian ruler.

[Germanicus]

I have to agree with everything you've said PM, he was a brilliant organiser. I guess it's really a question of timing isn't it ? Like that "What if" string about Caesar never exsisting. I can't put him on the same level as Sulla and Marius though......I just can't see it. Can you recommend any non-fiction worth reading about him ?

[pompeius magnus]

my knowledge isn't vast, but if you want to get a feeling for republican generals read Colleen McCullough's historical fiction series the first man in rome through october horse. Even though it is fiction it is very accurate, as far as non fiction reading on him, I have not began my in depth study of the last republic as of yet as I am reading through Livy and his war with Hannibal. Any suggestions anyone one who to read from the end of Livy(post Greek conquest) to the days of Marius, Sulla, Pompey, and Caesar.

[Germanicus]

Hi PM, yes, I've read Colleens series - that's probably where I picked up my negative feeling for the guy. Caesar is certainly the star of that series and it dissappointed me to see how esily PM was swayed by the boni to go against him.

[pompeius magnus]

It is all about perspective, as much of history is, I feel Pompey was just confused by the two different ways he could go and was in Caesar's villa, not literally, until the death of Caesars daughter Jullia. lets not forget that Caesar marched on Rome, whether it was for the right reason or not, and Pompey was defending him. Colleen views Caesar as a sort of liberator in my eyes, where the Boni were corrupt and being difficult, whereas someone else might view Caesar as a demigog and just bent on conquering Rome and being the rex or imperator.

[Germanicus]

Good one PM - saw your new thread.

[Hamilcar Barca]

Personally I don't see how Pompey can be rated ahead or compared to the greatness of Sulla and Marius. Pompey was basicly Sulla's sidekick. Remember also that Marius and Sulla never lost a battle and won many of Rome's greatest victories. The same cannot be said for Pompey. I should note also that I have full respect for Pompey but the fact was he wasn't as great as those two in terms of their achievements.

[pompeius magnus]

the purpose of this topic is whether Pompey is a first rate general, which he obviously is. Sure he had trouble with Sertorius, but was very young at the time, and nobody could defeat Casesar, he became a god after his death. When Marius and Sulla had their military success keep in mind that they were seasoned veterans, and Pompey finished off stuff in the east and swept away the pirates harrassing the mediterranean. Marius and Sulla are first rate generals, but so is Pompey based on his youth when he defeated Sertorius, he wasn't even thirty if memory serves, Sertorius was a veteran general who learned from Marius. Heres a list in my view of the greatest generals from the republic, this is my opinion only

 

1. Gaius Julius Caesar

2. Gaius Marius

3. Scipio Africanus

4. Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus

5. Lucius Cornellius Sulla

6. Quintus Fabius Maximus

[Hamilcar Barca]

Wait a tick, Pompey had nothing but heaped failure against Sertonius. Sertonius was assasinated by Perperna who took control of his army and only then was it that Pompey won a decisive victory.

[pompeius magnus]

After initial failures, pompey managed to hold off sertorius and began to cause the war to turn, and then yes sertorius was assassinated, but Pompey still did increadibly well against sertorius as he was in his mid twenties.

[Augur]

A Roman who spent his entire adult life (and an additional twenty centuries) being called "The Great" must have been damned good at something. For Pompey what else could it have been but generaling -- certainly not statesmanship, or the ability to avoid being manipulated by others.

 

Yes, Pompey was a top notch general. The tragedy was that he ended as a reluctant, ineffective tool of the doomed Boni. As someone cleverly punned in another string, Pompey should have stopped while he was ahead, or rather while he still had a head.

[pompeius magnus]

Just to clear it up, Pompeius gave himself the cognem Magnus I believe, or a close friend did.

[Augur]

Just to clear it up, Pompeius gave himself the cognem Magnus I believe, or a close friend did.

True, True. And when I was a young man I sometimes wishfully gave myself the cognems "The Very Cool Dude" and "The Studly," (close friends preferred "The Idiot"). But, alas, I doubt that any of these (well deserved) cognems will appear on my grave stone, let alone for millenia in the world's history books.

 

Kidding aside, regardless of who first assigned the cognem, what seems most significant and says most about Pompey the man is that it suck.

 

Sincerely, Auger The Studly.

 

PS. Hmmm. Which, of course, raises the question: who was it that first assigned "The Great" to the likes of Alexander, Peter, Cyrus, Herod, Constantine, Gregory, Gadsby and, while we're at it, to all the other, less personal Greats, like: The Great Pyramid... War... White Shark... Wall... Fire... Depression... Barrier Reef... Lakes... Danes... and all the others? Is there an International Cognem Registration Office somewhere that registers and certifies these things? If so, stand aside, and get ready to start calling me Auger The... you know.

[Primus Pilus]

There is also speculation that Sulla dubbed him Magnus in a semi sarcastic effort. The youthful Pompeius may have had an inflated ego, but he did prove valuable to the dictator.