Introducing my alternate history Roman novel

[Jamvs Moldinvs Naso]

Ave! This is the first time I've used this forum and I feel it could be very helpful for what I've set out to achieve. Basically, I've been writing short stories for years now, I'm only 19, so not that many years, but ever since I heard of the Roman Republic/Empire etc all that time ago me and my brother have forever been imagining 'what if' scenarios etc, I've always been a bit obsessed with the Roman Empire, not sure why, may have been playing Rome Total War/Europa Barbarorum too much, anyhow... So, a year ago I put pen to paper to plan and come up with an idea for my story.

 

Basically, it is set in 2500 AUC (ab urbe condita: since the founding of Rome), which is about...1753AD I think, I haven't got my notes with me. The Roman Empire didn't fall, instead, as Diocletian took imperial office late 3rd century a series of large scale slave revolts shook the Roman economy to its core, the constant slave revolts led Diocletian to set Rome on a path of emancipation for its slaves, to quell the unrest. A huge civil war broke out as the wealthy slave owners, and other businesses dependent on slavery refused to pay into the imperial treasury. Maximian, Augustus of the Western Empire came to the aid of the slave owners and thus began a civil war lasting a decade. At the end of the war Rome was utterly bankrupted, her armies were spent and hundreds of thousands had died and barbarians had encroached on her frontier provinces. However, a general, by the name of Lucius of the Furii, had seized the imperial throne of a now united empire, no east or west. He was of the side of the slave owners, but ironically could not now re-enslave the now freed slaves, and began the most ambitious programme of political and economic reforms since the reign of Augustus, to make up for the loss of slave labour in the economy, considering slaves in the West and East had both rebelled in support of Diocletian, against Maximian and the forces of slavery. Following a short period of bankrupcy the new reforms and investments paid off, within a matter of decades Rome was wealthier and her industry growing like never before, armies under the command of Lucius conquered and subdued Germania, Dacia and forged a peace with the Sassanids through negotiation and landswaps (in place of the sword, when Rome was bankrupt).

 

The reforms brought about a second Pax Romana. The Imperivm Romanvm now stretches 'south to the golden sands of the Sahara, east to the frozen wastes, north covering Skandia and far west across the ocean to the colonies of Nova Roma.'

Following the second most successful and influential Emperor in Roman history the Imperial Cult grew in importance once again, as the people worshipped Lucius as a living god like no other before him, he had saved Rome from herself. Christianity waned, but was tolerated for hundreds of years until it was outlawed and purged from Roman society, being seen as a threat to the hegemonic cultural imperialism of the Roman gods and the interwoven nature of the Roman gods with the thousands of religions and deities worshipped throughout the empire.

 

Rome has been in a cold war with China for centuries, Rome being an industrial, but isolationist, powerhouse, and China being an agrarian regional power with a population in the hundreds of millions.

 

The technology level of my novel/la is rather complicated, the Roman navy possesses mighty 'juggernauts', warships with relatively rudimentary cannon, unguided rockets and comparitively advanced electrical weapons (Ruslev's eyes were fixated on the live feed from the battle, watching the Roman ships fire great bolts of blue electrical energy towards the writhing shadow-leviathans. The bolts of artificial lightning hit the ships and immediately burst into flames, the leviathans turned to starboard to produce a full broadside, engulfing the Roman juggernauts in explosions and the thick smoke of battle.), yet, they have not invented any form of computer, or microchip, or even miniaturisation.

They have aircraft, even VTOL aircraft, yet they are relatively short range and use propellers. Combustion-engines are used, but restricted to military use and high-level political office, instead, citizens use a well oiled civic transport system of massive locomotives, run on coal and oil.

 

I haven't gotten round to it yet, but the Roman army will be based on traditional tactics, it's weaponry different of course, with a single shot/very long loading rifle similar to the way javelins were used before receiving an enemy force. Military tactics will be very similar to early 19th century armies, legionaries will have retained the use of equipment similar to the scutum style shields and gladius short swords. Tracked armoured vehicles take the place of cavalry and unguided rockets take the place of onagers and trebuchets, ballistas and scorpions also have their own modern equivalents etc.

 

The storyline follows the Emperor Marcus Nomenor Augustus as he leads a crusade against the peoples of South America, which has no actual name at the moment (thinking of using terranova but its a bit...cheesy, I use Nova Roma for the Roman equivalent of the 13 colonies). At the beginning, more or less, a mysterious fleet attacks the Spanish coast devastating ports and villages, the Emperor leads a force to find and destroy the invaders etc etc. Although that is more a side-element, Ruslev Aelius Famulus, a tech operator, is the primary character. He begins the story in a small outpost on the Spanish coast (aka Iberian coast)and is badly wounded when an explosion from the destruction of the mysterious fleet damages the outpost he resides in, he then awakes in a military hospital before being allotted as a reinforcement for the Amazon crusade, he spends weeks in a training camp in an attempt to bring his fitness levels up and hone his fighting skills after several years as a mere tech operator, he meets and befriends Kalen who later on takes the role of co-primary similar to the Macro-Cato relationship in Scarrow's Eagle Series, he is then enrolled into the Second Legion and shipped out to Nova Roma, and then the Amazon, where his transport crashes and he winds up in enemy hands, learning of a dark secret involving a lost sect of Christianity and the rise of an empire.

 

Any questions, suggestions etc would be welcome!

[Centurion-Macro]

I honestly don't know what to think, I have never heard a story similar to this before.

 

Can I have a snippet to see what it is like?

[Melvadius]

With this outline you are not totally stepping out into new territory as it seems to have some similarities to other alternative history fiction which spring from similar premises several of which are listed here

 

IIRC; Agent of Byzantium by Harry Turtledove set in an alternate 14th century with no Islam and the Germanicus trilogy by Kirk Mitchell who has the Roman troops using 'pila' AKA single shot rifles fighting off enemy forces around 'Nova Roma' are probably closest related to elements of your outline.

 

Not being the first however doesn't necessarily mean you will not be able to write a story which will generate its own interest and may even get me back into reading SF again.

 

EDIT - BTW I do worry slightly about this extract:

 

...The Imperivm Romanvm now stretches 'south to the golden sands of the Sahara, east to the frozen wastes, north covering Skandia and far west across the ocean to the colonies of Nova Roma.'...

[Ludovicus]

Wow, this is alternate history on steroids, but I commend you for such an ambitious undertaking. Two items: language & succession.

 

The Latin language, like all languages, evolved. There are certain indications, even in the 3rd Century CE, of linguistic shifts, e.g. loss of ending consonant "m", "au" becoming "o", and a tendency toward more non-standard grammatical structures. I notice that one of your Roman names of 2500 AUC is spelled as if it were a name of 1500 years previous, e.g. Marcus Nomenor Augustus. The innovations of Christian Latin and the unschooled Latin spoken by barbarian recruits all over the Empire had profound impacts on the language . Have you thought about how Latin of 2500 AUC would have looked given these and even more dramatic developments of the long lived Empire that you have imagined?

 

Also you should consider one of the chief weaknesses of the Roman Empire, the lack of a workable succession scheme. Diocletian's reform involving the rule of the Tetrarchy was short lived. How does your Roman Empire of 2500 years solve the problem of how rulers succeed each other without inflicting fatal damage on the state?

Edited August 5, 2011 by Ludovicus

[GhostOfClayton]

Firstly, it seems an intelligently thought out piece of writing (especially for a nineteen year-old). Lodivicus echoed my first thoughts, which were to do with language.

 

Another question struck me. Where does the Jewish faith sit in this universe? With the Christians gone, it would presumably be the principle montheistic religion.

 

Consider communications seriously. I think it would be difficult to maintain an empire the other side of the Atlantic without reasonably efficient communications. How did the Brits go about it? By the way, the name for South America? How about North = Roma Nova Superior and South = Roma Nova Inferior?

 

Lastly, battle tactics. Look carefully at the way single shot muskets changed the tactics/equipment/uniforms. Those bright red coats and tri-corner hats weren't just for decoration, they played a part on the new-look battlefield, though Roman-style tactics were adapted to the new technology rather than replaced.

 

OK - so this is lastly. This whole 'lightning bolt from a ship' thing struck me. It sounds massively in advance of the technology you described. If you need to use it, make sure there is a sound scientific method behind it, consistent with the level of technology.

 

But, I am impressed!

[Jamvs Moldinvs Naso]

Thanks for the feedback, I'll try and go through each of your points in turn.

 

With this outline you are not totally stepping out into new territory as it seems to have some similarities to other alternative history fiction which spring from similar premises several of which are listed here

Yeah, I thought about this a lot before, however there are some key differences in 'my' timeline, for example, in my timeline the Roman Empire was forced to end the use of slaves etc which I have already covered, as far as I know all other books similar to my idea still retain the slave trade in the modern era, the end of the slave trade served as a catalyst for Roman industry after the loss of cheap labour etc.

 

IIRC; Agent of Byzantium by Harry Turtledove set in an alternate 14th century with no Islam and the Germanicus trilogy by Kirk Mitchell who has the Roman troops using 'pila' AKA single shot rifles fighting off enemy forces around 'Nova Roma' are probably closest related to elements of your outline.

My timeline includes Islam, the caliphate occupies the area between the eastern border of the Roman Empire and somewhere in eastern India, there are aspects I haven't yet fully clarified and this is one of them.

 

BTW I do worry slightly about this extract:

 

Quote

...The Imperivm Romanvm now stretches 'south to the golden sands of the Sahara, east to the frozen wastes, north covering Skandia and far west across the ocean to the colonies of Nova Roma.'...

That just means western Russia, I had no intention of the Empire expanding all the way to Siberia, that's utterly ridiculous!

 

The Latin language, like all languages, evolved. There are certain indications, even in the 3rd Century CE, of linguistic shifts, e.g. loss of ending consonant "m", "au" becoming "o", and a tendency toward more non-standard grammatical structures. I notice that one of your Roman names of 2500 AUC is spelled as if it were a name of 1500 years previous, e.g. Marcus Nomenor Augustus. The innovations of Christian Latin and the unschooled Latin spoken by barbarian recruits all over the Empire had profound impacts on the language . Have you thought about how Latin of 2500 AUC would have looked given these and even more dramatic developments of the long lived Empire that you have imagined?

 

Also you should consider one of the chief weaknesses of the Roman Empire, the lack of a workable succession scheme. Diocletian's reform involving the rule of the Tetrarchy was short lived. How does your Roman Empire of 2500 years solve the problem of how rulers succeed each other without inflicting fatal damage on the state?

This is interesting, and I feel naive now that I realise I had completely overlooked this (the language 'barrier').

 

Yes, I've planned the succession, I saw this, as you say, as one of the prime reasons for the fall of the Western Empire. It's mentioned briefly in the prologue, I am going to expand upon this a lot further seeing as it's part of the main plot.In the time between the empire-breaking-slave-uprisings and 2500AUC, the empire, over time, gradually took on pragmatic, but limited, democratic reforms. Emperors are elected by the eligible electorate, male, property owning etc similar to British democracy in the early 19th century, appropriate nominees are selected by the plebeian court (a primitive form of the American electoral college system), a committee of senior senators. Senators are elected in sub-provincial constituencies vaguely correlative of population, there are between 6-900 senators, haven't affirmed which. Each province of the empire has its own legislative assemblies and political customs.

 

.

Lodivicus echoed my first thoughts, which were to do with language.

 

Another question struck me. Where does the Jewish faith sit in this universe? With the Christians gone, it would presumably be the principle montheistic religion.

 

Consider communications seriously. I think it would be difficult to maintain an empire the other side of the Atlantic without reasonably efficient communications. How did the Brits go about it? By the way, the name for South America? How about North = Roma Nova Superior and South = Roma Nova Inferior?

 

Lastly, battle tactics. Look carefully at the way single shot muskets changed the tactics/equipment/uniforms. Those bright red coats and tri-corner hats weren't just for decoration, they played a part on the new-look battlefield, though Roman-style tactics were adapted to the new technology rather than replaced.

 

OK - so this is lastly. This whole 'lightning bolt from a ship' thing struck me. It sounds massively in advance of the technology you described. If you need to use it, make sure there is a sound scientific method behind it, consistent with the level of technology.

 

Judaism is not high on my list of important things to mention, I imagine it'll be mentioned in passing at some point, perhaps a sequel (if I ever get that far) will deal with such things.

Communications is a major factor in my current plot, the failure of a message from Nova Roma Superior( thanks for that!) to reach the European continent quick enough leads to the destruction of ...well quite a lot. I don't want to spoil it, let's just say it's a massive disaster. Steam ships were able to reach America in the 1800s in less than 10 days, so that's not that slow, considering the entire real Roman empire was held together by a network of horsemen/messengers etc that took several days to transport messages from places as close to each other as Spain and Gaul. The British Empire as late as the 19th century still relied on steamships/ sail for contact with the colonies etc, so it's not unfeasible. However, I am trying to factor in the inherent terror of the ancient Romans towards the sea into the plot, however much that may have waned.

The electric cannon is reminiscent of one of my earlier drafts in which the empire was far more advanced than we currently are at present. I've tried to rationalise it by making it effectively a giant TAZER, firing a steel cable and a bolt of electricity down the cable, personally I hate the idea but if I change it, it'll ruin some of the scenes already in place. I have a feeling I'll swap out the scenes.

I've got to go out now, I'll come back to the last point after work! Thanks peeps.

[Melvadius]

BTW I do worry slightly about this extract:

 

'... The Imperivm Romanvm now stretches 'south to the golden sands of the Sahara, east to the frozen wastes, north covering Skandia and far west across the ocean to the colonies of Nova Roma. ...'

That just means western Russia, I had no intention of the Empire expanding all the way to Siberia, that's utterly ridiculous!

 

 

I was more concerned about heading east from Rome and finding any frozen wastes apart from the Himalayas if you veer too far south or indeed Russia if you veered a long way north

[Maty]

You might like to look at Robert Silverberg's Roma Eterna which is a collection of stories starting in AUC 1203 which describes how the Roman Empire survived the barbarian onslaught and made the breakthrough into the industrial era and beyond.

 

There's some intriguing ideas in the book

[GhostOfClayton]

. . . and out of interest more than for any constructive reason, have a look at the "Bread and Circuses" episode of Star Trek: The Original Series (second season). Gene Roddenberry must have loved alternative histories, as more Star Trek episodes than seemed to involve them than would be the case by chance alone.

Edited August 15, 2011 by GhostOfClayton

[Ursus]

. . . and out of interest more than for any constructive reason, have a look at the "Bread and Circuses" episode of Star Trek: The Original Series (second season). Gene Roddenberry must have loved alternative histories, as more Star Trek episodes than seemed to involve them than would be the case by chance alone.

 

The Romulan Empire was also very loosely based on a space faring Roman Empire.

[DecimusCaesar]

You might like to look at Robert Silverberg's Roma Eterna which is a collection of stories starting in AUC 1203 which describes how the Roman Empire survived the barbarian onslaught and made the breakthrough into the industrial era and beyond.

 

There's some intriguing ideas in the book

#

Reminds me of another series called Romanitas by Sophia McDougall, which is set in an alternate reality Roman Empire in the 21st Century.

[Tribunicus Potestus]

Firstly, it seems an intelligently thought out piece of writing (especially for a nineteen year-old). Lodivicus echoed my first thoughts, which were to do with language.

 

Another question struck me. Where does the Jewish faith sit in this universe? With the Christians gone, it would presumably be the principle montheistic religion.

 

Consider communications seriously. I think it would be difficult to maintain an empire the other side of the Atlantic without reasonably efficient communications. How did the Brits go about it? By the way, the name for South America? How about North = Roma Nova Superior and South = Roma Nova Inferior?

 

Lastly, battle tactics. Look carefully at the way single shot muskets changed the tactics/equipment/uniforms. Those bright red coats and tri-corner hats weren't just for decoration, they played a part on the new-look battlefield, though Roman-style tactics were adapted to the new technology rather than replaced.

 

OK - so this is lastly. This whole 'lightning bolt from a ship' thing struck me. It sounds massively in advance of the technology you described. If you need to use it, make sure there is a sound scientific method behind it, consistent with the level of technology.

 

But, I am impressed!

Good points. Might I also suggest the cross cultural effects of bordering on China. Romans did not shy from borrowing ideas from outside if they were good. China was ahead of Rome in many respects and close contact would reflect this. Roman ideas would be bound to enter China as well. Also many chinese would be living in the Empire and romans in China. It's inevitable. Borders are always shades not fine lines. If you travel a lot you will see what I mean. In your book does china invent gunpowder? Close contact with Rome would accelerate this I would suspect. Rome would then get their hands on it in very short order. There would be all kinds of spies both sides of the border. Not to mention corruption both sides as well.