History Mystery - Roman dodecahedron

[Viggen]

Can you do what the world's archaeologists can't? Can you explain this -- thing? It

[Ursus]

I find it interesting it was most popular in heavily Celtic/Germanic territories. I wouldn't be surprised if it had some kind of religious or occult significance, given the 12 major gods of the pantheon or the 12 signs of the zodiac. Perhaps they were used in Romano-Celtic temples, and "the decorative knobs" had some kind of iconography function.

[Macerinus]

I've been wondering about what it was since seeing one (or something similar) at the Gallo Romeins Museum Tongeren.

When I look at it it reminds me of one of those strange massage ball things.....

 

Strange that it's function remains a mystery , it certainly doesn't look like a weapon

 

 

Edited June 12, 2011 by Macerinus

[Medusa]

At Schwarzenacker near Homburg/Saar (South-West Germany) they also found such a thing and call it "Pentagondodekaeder". You could see it here if you scroll down:

 

http://www.roemermuseum-schwarzenacker.de/index.php?id=25

 

As it says there about 80 pcs. of this have been found in the Celtic provinces of the Roman Empire. Schwarzenacker was part of the Provincia Belgica. But even Alfons Kolling does not know what it could be as he writes in his book about the finds of Schwarzenacker called "Die R

[caesar novus]

What my army uses them for is similar to police spike strips. Throw a bunch of them onto an oxcart or chariot path, and especially if on a hilly portion the hoofs will slip and slide. The balls dig in the hoof and ground just enough to promote a rolling action and the beasts slip and slide. Then our troops emerge from the trees and start hacking. Caput mundi!

[Klingan]

Can you do what the world's archaeologists can't? Can you explain this -- thing? It

[Kosmo]

What my army uses them for is similar to police spike strips. Throw a bunch of them onto an oxcart or chariot path, and especially if on a hilly portion the hoofs will slip and slide. The balls dig in the hoof and ground just enough to promote a rolling action and the beasts slip and slide. Then our troops emerge from the trees and start hacking. Caput mundi!

 

Caltrops?

[Melvadius]

I don't really see them than caltrops - which are generally simply and quickly made with four spikes designed to land so one spike always points upwards to sink into the unwary foot or hoof.

 

These seem too complex to be either effective as caltrops or to be quicklly made to be used in any number although they seem to have a fairly high degree of regularity in form which seems to argue for a 'manufacturing' process for a specific purpose.

 

The mystery of these objects has some similarities with small Neolithic period carved stones balls which have only really been found in northern Scotland.

 

The suggestion that both the Roman metal objects as well as the earlier Scottish ones may have had possible religious origin does tend to make sense. Although with the Scottish balls, in my view, there is always the possibility that one was originally created as a toy or as an exercise of carving skill with other carvers later taking up the challenge of creating similar interesting shapes.

[Viggen]

this site has the most detailed hypothesis what this thing might be

 

This article presents a new theory for the use of the dodecahedron, together with experimental support. Shortly summarized, my new theory can be described as followed: the dodecahedron was an astronomic measuring instrument with which the angle of the sunlight can be measured and thereby one specific date in springtime, and one date in the autumn can be determined with accuracy. The dates that can be measured were probably of importance for the agriculture. The sowing date of winter grain is important for the achievement of optimal produce. Therefore I anticipate that the dodecahedron would only be used in autumn time.

http://www.dodecaeder.nl/en/hypothese

[Melvadius]

An interesting although highly complex mathematical solution, I just wish that as well as angles some more basic information had been given such as a representative sample of the diameter of the holes on at least one (but preferably a few) of the objects. If he had listed the holes grouped by opposing faces it may have provided proof that opposing sides were intended to be of differing sizes.

 

I also wish there wasn't a glaring error in the first paragraph of his thesis - it doesn't bode well for the rest of the work (:

 

In the course of the years, several different theories have been formulated, that attempt to clarify what the dodecahedron was used for and what meaning, what significance they had in the society of that time. A satisfactory explanation is yet to be given. Up till now, some 90 specimen have been found in that part of Europe, that used to belong to the Northwesterly part of the Roman empire. The circumstances during which the items where found are unclear, but still, with some certainty one could determine that they were probably used from the first up to and including the fourth century BC. In two recent publications (R. Nouwen 1993 and B.H. Greiner 1995), a comprehensive outline has been given of all the known data concerning dodecahedrons and in which also all the existing theories are being dismissed, based on partially scientific analyses. Greiner mentions an astounding 27 different theories, theories that are often miles apart, for example a candlestick, dice, a bludgeon, a children

[Medusa]

No idea if it works, but I just registered with flickr in order to upload the scan I've made

 

 

If it works, this page shows a reconstruction (of course oversized) of the pentagondodekaeder from Schwarzenacker. Then a drawing of the thing folded out showing clearly the different sizes of the holes and a dice found in Geneva, Switzerland also having twelve sides. Here the twelve sides bear the names of the twelve Zodiac signs.

 

According to Kolling this brings it near the astrological-astronomical field and hence maybe the druids.

[caesar novus]

What my army uses them for is similar to police spike strips. Throw a bunch of them onto an oxcart or chariot path, and especially if on a hilly portion the hoofs will slip and slide. The balls dig in the hoof and ground just enough to promote a rolling action and the beasts slip and slide. Then our troops emerge from the trees and start hacking. Caput mundi!

 

 

Such small, nasty, devices are known from the ancient world but I believe that they were, in general, quite sharp and not so decorated!

We use these in northern forested areas where the trails are narrow, and the spikey kinds would be walked away by the first barbarian in the group. These act more like ball bearings and the same ones will repeatedly work on the entire train coming thru. The knobs are needed to temporarily dig in and promote rolling; otherwise it could be walked upon like rocks. Knobs work particularly well on frozen ground, but it all sometimes melts/refreezes, and the holes permit sticking a shaft in to break it free from ice and reset. Also this makes it harder for the barbarians to hurl them back at us with their slings, because like a whiffle ball the drag is raised and the mass is low. The size of the ball is in proportion to the roughness of the ground - bigger ones roll over larger irregularities.

[Fulvia]

The answer is so easy, gosh, what is holding up the most brilliant minds? CLEARLY it was the first hamster ball.

[daydreamer]

I believe this may have been a tool made and utilized for one specific purpose, to make the gatekeeper's job easier.

The dodecahedron would have been tied and hung from the gate itself.The different size openings looks to be used to hold onto the ends or hooks of bars to slide much quicker and also used as handholds.The round nubs possibly could have been used to lock into round loops of bars for the same purpose of opening and closing of the gates. This makes sense to me using logic and thinking of the details of this find. Thank you,

Daydreamer

[caldrail]

has anyone considered that it might not have any significance at all? Rather that it might have been merely a fashionable decorative item?