Guest spartacus Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 The question for this topic is : Are we rightly justified in our admiration for the Romans or are we overly enthusiastic and obsessed? All members, myself included are enthusiastic about the Romans otherwise we would not have joined the site, it got me thinking, for example how much time we spend on the site in a week! If you are like me, read books on Romans virtually every night, totalling numerous hours a week, this behaviour could be seen as an obsession! I own books, artefacts, souvenirs and visited dozens of sites so I must in that sense class myself as an obsessive We admire the Emporers, the Legions, Architecture etc but we should consider the darker side of the Romans, instead of being "blinkered" to the good aspects, by weighing up the bad aspects of Rome we should then be able to conclude if we may be too hasty in our admiration In certain recent postings by members I have noticed an element of "Bias" in our replies, we tend to fight off anyone that posts an alternative answer to Roman supremacy, when really we should be more open-minded and view from both sides It must be remembered the Romans enslaved hundreds of thousands of people, torture was acceptable, people were killed in the name of entertainment, for these reasons I detest the Roman Culture, none of these traits would be acceptable today and if they were I am sure you would find them repulsive but that does not hold back the enthusiasm for Rome for most of us ! I would say, for me, the buildings and architecture are my obsession, I believe they are and always will be unequalled! That is why I visit Roman Sites because I am in awe of their construction work but not as a culture, to me they are barbaric towards fellow mankind Perhaps we should question whether the Romans are entirely worthy of our admiration, have we gone over the top in our obsession? I expect some backlash over my views on this, that is to be expected after all this is a debating forum but before you hit the keyboard consider this - ask yourself if your admiration for the Romans is truly justified, considering all aspects of Roman Culture! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 (A not so serious answer for a more serious question) Are we supposed to feel guilty because people died under the Romans? It may just be my math, but not a one of them would be alive today anyway I will decide what history is worthy of my admiration and study. I 'study' because I enjoy it and take personal gratification from it. I also believe that to know the past is to understand the present, and perhaps the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spartacus Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 Its not a question of feeling guilt, more empathy, do you really admire a race that was so barbaric to the point of seeing women and children ripped to pieces, I suspect not ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 If you don't like it, you should investigate your own feelings of guilt. Don't try to misdirect them on to the rest of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spartacus Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 Dangle a worm and the fish will bite !! Eh PP Who is directing them, it is a forum I presume I place for giving and taking opinion, that is all I did, give opinion, by the way, nice touch with the "rest of us" line, surely you can cope on your own PP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 Dangle a worm and the fish will bite !! Eh PP Yes, you certainly did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spartacus Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 MMMmm, okay ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 As for your last sentence refresh my memory as to which Author quoted that ? it sounds familiar ! This one perhaps? Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. George Santayana, The Life of Reason, Volume 1, 1905 Not quite the same, but the basic idea is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 I have asked this question myself, but yet do I have a true answer to come up for it. This does though remind me of something that occured only two days ago; I was presented with an option of retaking Canadian history in a University program. I scoffed at the idea; but yet wondered to myself why. The answer to me was clear, I thought that Roman history was superior to that of Canadian (not other histories, my thoughts were only thinking about Canadian). To tell the truth, I find Canadian history utterly boring and tedious. Then the thought came to me, why do I find Roman history so enthralling and Canadian so dull? Why do I love a culture that supported slavery over one that never had it; and enjoy reading about Roman wars, when Canada has had so few? Even Roman politics intrigues me more then Canadian. I find Canadian politics so mind numbing that I can't encourage myself even to vote (I am not the only person over here with this thought). I think that we are all intrigue by the mystery and the sheer fact that this society stands unprecedented even now. I don't think ether it is a terrible thing to like a culture that supported slavery and other horrible things, it only means that we can learn from it. And no we can't excuse it, or should even try to; that in itself is denial. Nor will I justify it ether, I have no right to. The Romans were as they always will be, Romans; they cannot be anything but that. Nor does anyone here I doubt does ether. Still I don't doubt that we will still be asking ourselves this question and it is quite natural to, it is no ones fault. I even think future generations will be asking the same thing of us. "Not to know what happened before one was born is to remain a child." This was quoted by Cicero, I have always firmly believed in this quote and think it is our responsibility as people to learn from prior civilizations. If we did not learn from prior expirences in our lives then we wouldn't be here right now to talk about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.Clodius Posted March 31, 2005 Report Share Posted March 31, 2005 I love Roman history because it is fascinating. "Past is prologue". Don't ask me who said that but I feel it to be relevant to my particular time in history. This is a mind boggling concept when you think about it. No other culture is so distant and yet so near to our own (particularly the United States), than Ancient Roman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Germanicus Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 I love Roman history because it informs us as to who we are as people....now. We are the same species and looking at Roman depravity helps one cope or even understand some of the things that still go on today. I like it also because of the great Portrait Sculpture they produced, enableing one to look at the face of a person who died way back then, and wonder about their life experiences. I feel no guilt and no disgust for the Romans. They lived according to their value system at the time just as we do now. In 2000 years there's every chance a more enlightened society will look back at us and say "Imagine....those freaks in the 21st century actually ate other living animals...what barbarians" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 This is an excellent question, and I do ask myself that sometimes. However, I pose another question in hypothetical retort: if we use a modern set of standards to condemn the Romans, should we consider the possibility that: 1) Is there a certain fallacy in judging the mores of a by-gone era by modern notions, and should we only judge the Romans by how well they lived up to the standards they set for themselves (did they live up to their own propaganda, in other words)? 2) Some of our modern notions might themselves be in error, or at least not as exceptionally advanced and enlightened over an allegedly primitive and barbaric people as we would like to believe? In the above two questions I have found some cause to hesitate before condemning the Romans for anything that runs afoul of modern sensibilities. I'm not saying I'd want to live in ancient Rome, but I do believe the Romans would have as much to teach us as we moderns would have to teach them. That's why I study them and admire them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spartacus Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 At least someone gets the point of the post Thanks for the Excellent Question statement, Ursus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlapse Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 I guess if you live your life based on other people's opinions and consequently have a guilty conscience, then I guess this might be a worthwhile question. If you live your life independently and first-hand then guilt doesn't affect you much and the question is irrelevant. Me, I'm interested in Romans because they are the first to reach a cerain height in human achievement. The ends, the means, the good, the bad... it's all worth studying and learning from. The only thing to be guilty about is the corruption of the principles inside you. People focus on the things they value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spartacus Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 only if you feel your principles are corrupted can you feel guilt ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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