Expanding The Empire

[Guest spartacus]

As is known the Roman Empire was vast !

 

A lot of Expeditions were undertaken, but too often we speak of the conquered lands, battles and the Roman achivements!

 

With this thread I would like to go back to the very beginning

 

Who comes up with the idea for invasion?

 

Is the idea debated in the Senate?

 

Is there any intelligence gathering prior to invasion?

 

Where does the finance come from?

 

There are dozens of questions on this subject! Gathering/training the Legions, taking enough provisions to feed thousands of troops, how much money is taken, weaponry etc etc!

 

It must have been a logistical nightmare!

 

Your thoughts welcomed ?

[Germanicus]

Romes initial conquests seem almost forced upon her. By this I mean that the "idea" for invasion of the Italian allies like the Etruscans was as a result of the latins being in conflict with them already, it was "Invade or be invaded" There was a similar situation with Carthage, Romes hand finaly being forced by Hannibal. I am unsure on the reasons or basis for invading Macedonia and the Greek states, but later invasions like Gaul seem to stem directly from individuals desire for new clients, money, income and power. Germania was considered I believe because of the earlier Germanic invasions which had been turned back/defeated by Marius and Sulla. To Romans the Germans were seen as a constant threat, hordes of gigantic barbarians that could sweep through Italia at any time. Caesars official reason for Gallic invasion was that he was helping Gallic allied tribes repel other tribes not aligned with Rome, so when invasions were sanctioned by the senate, it was usually for a reason, but not always one based in fact, as I belive Caesars real motivation was money, power and popularity.

[Guest spartacus]

Good answer Germanicus for the reasons for invasion, but it is the logistics for the start of a campaign is what I am after really, the funding, organization, troop gathering etc

 

Any thoughts on that side ?

 

Respectfully

 

Spartacus

[Germanicus]

For the earlier wars I would say that the money would have come from the Senate treasury, and would have been handed to the person (in most cases consul) who had been given command in the campaign, so that he could then go about arranging the logistics of the campaign, levying troops, organising supplies and equipment. I believe the General didn't do all that in person however, but had a subordinate Tribune who was specifically charged with overseeing logistics. But can't remember what this position was called.

 

This setup didn't change during the republic, although generals started paying bonuses and monies from their own purse to the troops, to get loyalty directly for themselves, above and beyond SPQR. Senators with command could propose bills in the senate for more money and more troops if the initial amount ended up being insufficient, they would also have to do this if the campaign took longer than expected, and they required more time or an extension of their imperium.

 

Later, Imperial campaigns I am less sure of - As the Emperor had permenant imperium. I suspect the Dacian campaign would still have had senate backing even though that backing was less important than before.

[Komet]

About funding--

 

After the First Punic War, Rome received a war indemnity from Carthage of 3200 talents. The indemnity repayed war debts, but also allowed Rome to fund future campaigns. Rome Received 10,000 talents after the Second Punic War, and then even more (15,000) after defeating Macedonia and dissolving the Antigonid dynasty.

 

By the time of empire, the fiscus, or emperor's personal purse, paid for military expenses, along with other things such as salaries of the imperial staff and social welfare system (grain, water supply, police, etc.). The fiscus was generated from Egypt, which was the emperor's personal honey pot, wealth and taxes from other military provinces, and certain indirect taxes.

 

About ideas for invasion--

 

Some wars were brought on by Rome's neighbors, like many of the wars early in the Republic. Others were for no legitimate reason, whatsoever. The Third Punic War was one such war. There was no justification for going to war, but Carthage was destroyed and tens of thousands were murdered or enslaved.

[Guest spartacus]

Komet

 

I refer to your last sentence - see my post on Ethnic Cleansing!

 

Good reply by the way!

[Primus Pilus]

Keep in mind too, that the armies of the earlier Republic were self financed... there were no wages and weapons and armor were provided by the individual troops. A considerable savings for the 'State' treasury.