Who Is Your Favorite

[P.Clodius]

Also many of the named individuals we know of from Pompeii and Herculaneum, whose homes I have visted - in particular the family of Marcus Nonius Balbus, once proconsul of Crete and Cyrenacia.

I wonder if this guy was related to the staunch caesarian, Caesar's man in Rome while he was in Gaul, advisor to the young Octavian during inter-caesarian clashes 43BC, first foreign born consul.

[senatus populusque romae]

II Punic war generals: Marcus Claudius Marcellus, and Gaius Claudius Nero.

[P.Clodius]

II Punic war generals: Marcus Claudius Marcellus, and Gaius Claudius Nero.

Hooraay, we have another 2nd punic war fan. These are great choices and two of the ablest generals the world has ever seen.

 

"The consul Nero, who made the unequalled march which deceived Hannibal and deceived Hasdrubal, thereby accomplishing an achievement almost unrivaled in military annals. The first intelligence of his return, to Hannibal, was the sight of Hasdrubal's head thrown into his camp. When Hannibal saw this, he exclaimed, with a sigh, that 'Rome would now be the mistress of the world.' To this victory of Nero's it might be owing that his imperial namesake reigned at all. But the infamy of the one has eclipsed the glory of the other. When the name of Nero is heard, who thinks of the consul? But such are human things." Taken from Wikipedia quoting Lord Byron

[tflex]

II Punic war generals: Marcus Claudius Marcellus, and Gaius Claudius Nero.

Hooraay, we have another 2nd punic war fan. These are great choices and two of the ablest generals the world has ever seen.

 

I agree, Claudius Nero is not so famous and very underrated. He was as a great military tactician.

[senatus populusque romae]

II Punic war generals: Marcus Claudius Marcellus, and Gaius Claudius Nero.

Hooraay, we have another 2nd punic war fan.

Very much so! Consider it to be greatest portion of the history of the greatest ancient civilization.

PS Is there a thread on this forum regarding the peoples dearest part of Roman history,if not it would be a good idea to star one.

[P.Clodius]

PS Is there a thread on this forum regarding the peoples dearest part of Roman history,if not it would be a good idea to star one.

Yes there is, don't ask where. It would probably be in the Imperium Romanum thread. The thread is atleast a year old so you'll have to dig.

[Pantagathus]

That's the whole point of the post, read mine I give a brief description of what Marcellus did. I only asked what Laelius did besides command a wing of Scipio's army!

 

Hooraay, we have another 2nd punic war fan.

 

I'm amazed that you would claim to be a 2nd PW fan but then ask much earlier in the thread what else Gaius Laelius did other than command a squadron at Zama?

 

I guess you are only a fan of the 2nd Punic War as long as it pertains to conflicts directly involving Hannibal? Though I'm willing to accept you did not mean to come off as dismissive and were honestly asking, that is not how you came accross.

[P.Clodius]

I was honestly asking. also, that post was many moons ago and I have learned much more since then. But still, there is almost no primary or secondary source material.

[Pantagathus]

I was honestly asking. also, that post was many moons ago and I have learned much more since then. But still, there is almost no primary or secondary source material.

 

It was many moons ago.

 

When you say almost no primary or secondary source material, do you mean there is a lack of evidence of Laelius' accomplishments?

[P.Clodius]

When you say almost no primary or secondary source material, do you mean there is a lack of evidence of Laelius' accomplishments?

I'm saying there's little out there except passing references.

[Pantagathus]

I'm saying there's little out there except passing references.

 

"LAELIUS, was from early manhood the friend and companion of P. Corn. Scipio Africanus, and their actions are so interwoven, that it is difficult to relate them separately. (Polyb. x. 3; Vell. Pat. ii. 127.) Laelius first appears in history as the commander of the Roman fleet in the attack on New Carthage, B. C. 210. To him alone was confided the destination of the armament, which, in correspondence with the movements of the land forces, he conducted from the mouth of the Ebro to the haven of the Carthaginian capital of Spain. Laelius, during the assault, blockaded the port, after its capture occupied the city with his marines, and, for his services, received from Scipio a golden wreath and thirty oxen. (Polyb. x. 3, 9; Liv. xxvi, 42, 48; Appian, Hispan. 20.)

 

Having assisted in distributing the booty, the hostages, and the prizes of valour to the soldiers, he was dispatched to Rome with the captives and the tidings of victory. He arrived thither early in B. C. 209, and, after reporting to the senate and the people the fall of New Carthage, and delivering up his prisoners-among whom were Mago, the governor of the city, fifteen members of the great council of Carthage, and two members of the council of elders,-he rejoined Scipio at Tarraco. (Polyb. x. 18, 19, 37; Liv. xxvi. 48, 51, xxvii. 7.)

 

Throughout the war in Spain, Sicily, and Africa, Laelius acted as confidential legatus to his friend, nor until B. C. 202, when the senate appointed him Scipio's quaestor extraordinary, had he any official rank or station. (Liv. xxx. 33.) At the battle of Baecula, in the upper valley of the Guadalquivir, he commanded Scipio's left wing, B. C. 208 (Polyb. x. 39; Liv. xxvii. 18; Appian, Hispan. 25, 26); and in B. C. 206, a stormingparty, when Illiturgi, on the right bank of the Baetis, was taken (Liv. xxviii. 19, 20); a detachment of the fleet, when Gades was expected to revolt, with which he defeated the Punic admiral Adherbal in the straits (Liv. xxviii. 23, 30); and the cavalry, when Indibilis was routed (Polyb. xi. 32, 33; Liv. xxviii. 33).

 

Twice he visited the court of Syphax, king of the Masaesylians, and the most powerful of the African princes, whose alliance was of equal importance to Carthage and to Rome. The first time he went as Scipio's envoy, the next as his companion; and, many years afterwards, he related to their common friend, the historian Polybius (Polyb. x. 3), the particulars of that memorable banquet at which Syphax entertained at one table and on one couch two successive conquerors of Spain, the Punic Hasdrubal and the Roman Scipio. (Polyb. xi. 24; Liv. xxviii. 17, 18; Appian, Hispan. 29.) After the Carthaginians had evacuated Spain, Laelius returned with Scipio to Rome, and was present at his consular comitia, in the autumn of B. C. 206. (Polyb. xi. 33; Liv. xxviii. 38.)

 

The completion of the second Punic war was naturally assigned to the conqueror of Spain; but while Scipio was assembling his forces in Sicily, Laelius, with a portion of the fleet, was despatched to the African coast. He disembarked at Hippo Regius; the farms and vineyards of a populous and unguarded district afforded abundant spoil; the high road to Carthage was thronged with fugitives, and it was believed that Scipio himself, whose preparations were known and dreaded, had landed with the main army. At Hippo the Massylian chief Masinissa renewed his overtures to Rome. He urged Laelius to hasten Scipio's invasion, and warned him to return without delay, since the Carthaginians had discovered their error, and were preparing to cut off his retreat. Laelius accordingly returned to Messana. His booty betrayed the wealth and weakness of Carthage, and whetted the appetite of the legions for the plunder of Africa. (Liv. xxix. 1, 4, 6.)

 

In the spring of B. C. 204, Laelius, with twenty war-gallies, convoyed the left division of transports from the harbour of Lilybaeum to the Fair Promontory. (Liv. xxix. 24-27.) On the mainland he again ably seconded his friend. To hint and Masinissa was entrusted the burning of the Punic and Numidian camps (Polyb. xiv. 4; Liv. xxx. 3-6); the pursuit of Hasdrubal and Syphax far into the arid wastes of Numidia (Polyb. xiv. 9; Liv. xxx. 9, comp ib. 17; Appian. Pun. 26-28); and the capture of the Masaesylian king and his capital Cirta, for which services Laelius received for the second time a golden crown (Liv. xxx. 11-16).

 

At Cirta he asserted the severe discipline of Rome towards its most faithful allies, by tearing [p. 706] Masinissa from the arms of Sophonisba, the beautiful and unfortunate daughter of Hasdrubal Barca (Liv. xxx. 12). A second time also he was the usher of victory and of a train of illustrious captives -Syphax and his Masaesylian nobles-to the senate and people of Rome (xxx. 16, 17). He was detained in Italy until the last Carthaginian envoys had received their final answer, and rejoined Scipio in Africa in the latter months of B. C. 203 (xxx. 22, 25). At the battle of Zama in the following year, he commanded the Italian horse that formed the extreme left of the Roman line. His repulse and pursuit of the Numidian cavalry exposed the enemy's flank, and his charge at the close of the day, on Hannibal's reserve, determined Scipio's victory (Polyb. xv. 9, 12, 14; Liv. xxx. 33-35; Appian, Pun. 41, 44). A third time Laelius was despatched to Rome: but he then announced not the fall of a city or of a single host, but the consummation of a war, which for sixteen years had swept over Italy, land risen to the barriers of Rome itself." - DofG&RB&M William Smith

 

It's clear that without Laelius, Scipio would probably not have accomplished all that he did. So to me Laelius fits the bill for possibly the greatest little known Roman not only for his actions as Admiral & Calvary Squadron commander but more for his role as envoy to the African allies.

 

If his old friend (Scipio) hadn't screwed him out of his consular appointment to Greece and with it the command of the war against Antiochus, we might have been discussing him in a different thread...

 

On a side note, he must have commanded a lot of natural respect to be so successful of a leader (Admiral, Envoy, Commander) & entrusted with such great responsibilities without a rank or public office!

Edited January 12, 2006 by Pantagathus

[P.Clodius]

Nice collection of references Pantagathus. I will refer back to this thread when I need to, thanks.

[Philhellene]

Mine is Aetius. I feel he never gets the credit he deserves for defeating Attila the Hun at Chalons, although he lost most of his army in the process.

 

You`re wrong. Aetius didn`t get the credit he deserved because he alredy had everything. He was a real ruler of the Western Empire under Valentinian III all the time of his reign. He murdered his rivals (like Bonifacius), and Empire lost Africa because of his activity... Almost all ancient authors didn`t like him, but now he became a champion.

[Kosmo]

My favorite not so famous roman is Lucullus for his brilliant campaigns in Asia where he defeated all his opponents only to have his glory taken by that worthless Pompei Magnus. He crushed Mithridates VI Eupator and captured armenian capital of Tigranocerta puting an end to armenian ambitions and he was the first to fight and defeat the parthians.

If emperors are not all famous my options will be Hadrian and Aurelian.

[Philhellene]

My favorite not so famous roman is Lucullus for his brilliant campaigns in Asia where he defeated all his opponents only to have his glory taken by that worthless Pompei Magnus. He crushed Mithridates VI Eupator and captured armenian capital of Tigranocerta puting an end to armenian ambitions and he was the first to fight and defeat the parthians.

 

According to Nicolaus of Damascus he was the first who accustomed Romans to luxuries (FGrHist #90 F77).