Guest SassinidAzatan Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 A post from another thread on this site got me inquisitive.From http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13007&st=0&p=111766entry111766 As far as the depiction of the tortoise formation in a pitched battle, that is highly inaccurate. The Tortoise or testudo was only used in two situations: 1. for sieges 2. a modified form for receiving a cavalry charge The late Roman army was actually well-adapted for smaller skirmishes, since they frequently dealt with small barbarian raiding parties. There were few large-scale battles between Strassburg and Adrianople. So this has really got me curious. In general history books and popular media, the Testudo formation is portrayed as being the primary formation the Romans used habitually and as the best formation for protection against projectiles.This is especially true for films such as Gladiator and even films taking place long after the Roman Legion has discarded the Testudo and heavy infantry for the tactics and warfare of the Barbarian such as the film Attilla, and for PC games such as Rome:Total War where the Testudo formation is considered the best too use like 95% of the time. But Barca's post got me curious on how the Testudo formation was really used and workd in reality. How was Testudo really use and how often?It wasn't in every of the open field battles the Romans fought in like movies and PC game portray right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryaxis Hecatee Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 the testudo was a formation during which soldiers were thight packed and vulnerable to any issue with the ground. It was very slow to move in such formation and the closeness of the men meant they heated far more quickly than usual. Thus the formation would not be standard formation. Also roman training emphasised giving the soldier enough room to use his sword and shield, not giving a continuous front during the whole battle like the classical greek phalanx. Thus one should expect testudo to be indeed mainly intended to approach a city wall (where heavy projectiles density was expected and where the testudo was thus a good protection, especially if some of the soldiers thus protected in the middle of the formation carried ladders or fascinae or other siege tools) and when facing archer-cavalry, especially against the Parthian (it was probably the formation used by Crassus legions to try to protect themselve). Testudo against cavalry might not have been very effective, a more classic approach like the one described in Amien Marcellin might be the best kind of protection (closer to the germanic shield-wall). Finally, one has also to check which testudo formation you're speaking about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostOfClayton Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Great clip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barca Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 What one sees in a film doesn't always have much bearing on reality: Here's a clip from the recent movie Eagle showing the Romans breaking their testudo when confronted by war chariots. That made no sense to me. By turning and running they only made themselves more vulnerable. http://movieclips.com/9Swja-the-eagle-movie-testudo/ Not shown in the clip was the earlier use of the same testudo to advance against the Celtic warriors to rescue Roman POW's. Again the lack of mobility of such a formation would make it somewhat unwieldy for that purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barca Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 the Testudo formation is portrayed as being the primary formation the Romans used habitually and as the best formation for protection against projectiles. It is certainly an excellent formation for protection against missile fire. Marc Anthony used it as a last resort against the Parhians. See pages 55-56: http://books.google.com/books?id=WadVUvp2qlAC&pg=PA55&lpg=PA55&dq=mark+anthony+testudo+parthia&source=bl&ots=m8aqI65bZi&sig=17WcoS-83mK7WtViDJuD9tTPUUs&hl=en&ei=lbiXTbO1H8matweu1NH_Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CC4Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barca Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Here's an interesting article that I found recently. It describes the Fulcum, a late Roman modification of the Testudo. It is a long article that I just started reading. Briefly it appears that the front two ranks formed a testudo-like shield wall to protect the formation from enemy missiles: http://www.duke.edu/web/classics/grbs/FTexts/44/Rance2.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldrail Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 It's not a testudo, but a static shield wall composed of two rows of shields rather than one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ParatrooperLirelou Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 the Testudo formation is portrayed as being the primary formation the Romans used habitually and as the best formation for protection against projectiles. It is certainly an excellent formation for protection against missile fire. Marc Anthony used it as a last resort against the Parhians. See pages 55-56: http://books.google.com/books?id=WadVUvp2qlAC&pg=PA55&lpg=PA55&dq=mark+anthony+testudo+parthia&source=bl&ots=m8aqI65bZi&sig=17WcoS-83mK7WtViDJuD9tTPUUs&hl=en&ei=lbiXTbO1H8matweu1NH_Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CC4Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false But I'm curious, was it effective in open pitch battle for defensive against infantry archer fire?Thats how the Romans are always portrayed using Testudo in open battle. Another question, was the Testudo formation static like they always portray in popular media?When Roman use Testudo in open battle fields,they are shown stuck on the ground and they couldn't move until they got out. Also, was the Testudo formation vulnerable against melee troops like movies portray in guerrilla Britons and Celts fighting the Romans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ParatrooperLirelou Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 It's not a testudo, but a static shield wall composed of two rows of shields rather than one. What makes the Testudo so different from typical Shield Wall Formations?Whenever armies are shown using shield walls with rectangular shields its always stated as "Testudo Like" and copying of the Romans.But this is too simplistic. Another thing thats been keeping me perplexed is that why do people have the perception that the Romans were the only few to use a shield wall formation?The Shield Wall formation is such a simple one that anyone with common sense would immediately come up with that tactic no matter how unsophisticated warfare is in the past.I read during riots, supposedly dumb criminals are known to get metallic rectangular objects and use it as shields in a "Testudo Formation"(this is what cops and reporters describe the shield walls in articles and news videos I seen on riots). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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