Did II Gemina Legion fight Boudica, ad61?

[Hus]

We are told by Roman sources that Paulinus fought Boudica's vast hoarde in pitched battle with no more than 15,000 troops, at Mancetter(?), and that the acting commander of II Gemina Legion, Postumus (based in Exeter?) refused to follow Paulinus' orders and march to his aid, for whatever reason, and later committed suicide in shame (presumably after hearing of the stunning victory?).

 

But I read one source that stated that the II legion DID fight with paulinus at that last Celtic vs Roman pitched battle?

 

If this is true, did the Gemina undergo a very fast march from Exeter to Paulinus after Postumus' death but leaving enough time to still join the fight? Or, is the source wrong and that II legion stayed in the S.West, suffering the shame of inertia?

[Melvadius]

I'd be interested to know which source you are quoting because such a suggestion doesn''t appear to be in any of my reference books.

 

BTW I think you are referring to Legio II Augusta as staying in its base - as well attested by Tacitus.

 

Legio XIV Gemina, and parts XX Valeria Victrix, formed the main part of the Roman forces along with an unknown number of auxilliaries as a vexillation of the IX Hispana had been routed earlier in the revolt.

[Hus]

I can't remember now, it was on the internet however , and challenged my understanding that the II Legion didn't fight with Paulinus? Just posting to ask those more knowledgeable.

Edited March 22, 2011 by Hus

[Melvadius]

Ah that explains it.

 

As stated on other threads there are only three mentions of the revolt in extant sources - two from Tacitus and one by Cassius Dio. Cassius Dio was actually writing around a hundred years after the event while Tacitus is relatively speaking contemporary as he would have had the chance to speak to people personally involved.

[Hus]

Thanks Melvadius, yes that's what i thought- and thanks for correcting my mention of which legions were available! My Roman history is a tad patchy, but I love the subject anyway!

[GhostOfClayton]

. . . and of course, just to muddy the waters, the Legio II Adiutrix arrived in the province soon afterwards.

 

This raises a question that I've never had satisfactorily answered. Why do so many Legions have the same number? Also, can a Legion's name (e.g Adiutrix or Augusta) be considered a cognomen for the Legion.

[Melvadius]

The answer to the numbering issue goes back to the later Rerpublican period. Initally when Rome was still basically a single city state; consular armies were called up for a single campaigning season and given numbers more or less at random. As Rome expanded and campaigns became extended - especially with theatres of war on multiple landmasses armies stayed in existence for longer periods and the numbering system became corrupted as new armies were raised for different long term campaigns.

 

It became further corrupted when civil war broke out and competing generals were raising their own legions effectively with the same number. Octavian/ Augustus inherited the debris of civil war and while several units were disbanded he also took some of his opponents surviving legions into his own army either as they were or merged with some of his own units.

 

The consequence of this merger was that several legions had the same nuimber so the different naming conventions were then used to seperate out the similarly numbered legions.

 

Once the 'genie was out of the bottle' it became less of an issue about forming legions as needed and using numbers more or less at random simply using a name as a designator.

 

By the later Imperial period the situation became even more confused with a drift to creating 'cohort' sized legions and vexillations of existing legions being based away from their parent legion for years at a time and needing to recruit locally. It appears that in most instances it became the practice to simply call all of the vixillations by the original legion name irrespective of where they were based or how many long term vexillations the unit had been split into.

[Here Wordus]

Sorry to resurrect this older thread, but I found the source that stated that the IInd Legion fought with Paulinus- on THIS forum!!

I think it's on one of the intro pages about IInd legion in ad60.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Here Wordus

[Here Wordus]

Anyone able to confirm this?

[caldrail]

The Legion II Augusta were in Britannia at the time. It's commander, Poenius Posthumus, refused orders to mobilise and committed suicide. Gemina was the name of two legions, XIII and XIV. The XIII was based in various places around Europe, the XIV took part in Boudicca's defeat at the Battle of Watling Street.

[Here Wordus]

Yes, but why is the above quote on this website saying that the IInd WAS fighting Boudica?

[caldrail]

They had to in order to expunge shame, or possibly be decimated.

[Here Wordus]

Hmm, but why are so many people on websites divided about the IInd?

And also Tacitus' report saying they didn't?

[caldrail]

Okay. I made a mistake. Postumus wasn't the legate of the II Augusta, he was the camp prefect (Top Centurion).

Boudicca ended her days by poison; while Poenius Postumus, camp-prefect of the second legion, informed of the exploits of the men of the fourteenth and twentieth, and conscious that he had cheated his own corps of a share in the honours and had violated the rules of the service by ignoring the orders of his commander, ran his sword through his body. Annals (Tacitus)

Nero sent reinforcements from Germania, which accounts for the mentions of Gemina.

The whole army was now concentrated and kept under canvas, with a view to finishing what was left of the campaign. Its strength was increased by the Caesar, who sent over from Germany two thousand legionaries, eight cohorts of auxiliaries, and a thousand cavalry. Their advent allowed the gaps in the ninth legion to be filled with regular troops; the allied foot and horse were stationed in new winter quarters; and the tribes which had shown themselves dubious or disaffected were harried with fire and sword. Annals (Tacitus)

The commentary from Bill Thayer is as follows:

The probable course of events seems to have been roughly this:— Suetonius hurried ahead with his light troops, while the fourteenth legion and part of the twentieth followed by forced marches: the second had been summoned to join him, probably at Wroxeter (Viroconium), but its commander Poenius Postumus refused to leave his own front defenceless against the Silures of S. Wales. At London, the situation was found to be desperate, with the rebels in overwhelming force and the ninth legion virtually exterminated. Suetonius, therefore, fell back along the Watling Street until he met the legionaries, was forced to an engagement "somewhere in the Midlands," and only survived through being allowed to choose his own ground. (Bill Thayer)

This implies the legate of the second legion was not present with his men. This is not explained.

[Here Wordus]

Thanks for that. Sounds plausible.

I just don't get why the UNRV forum intro (pictured) stated the above error about the IInd being present?

I guess that even experts are mistaken?