Corax Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 This is my first post so please be patient with me if I get it wrong!I did try to post this a few days ago but it disappeared into the ether! I am interested in learning more about the Mysteries of Mithras. I note that when the god is shown as killing the bull (the tauroctony) he is always shown as looking away from it. I know that David Ulansey identifies Mithras with Perseus who killed the Gorgon; he goes on to argue that as Perseus looked away from the Gorgon because her look could turn men to stone this has been transferred to Mithras and the bull. Does anyone have any other ideas? Many thanks. Corax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klingan Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I've never read this theory and can, thus, hardly say anything with confidence, but it seems a little bit odd. Does the myth of Perseus exist in the east? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corax Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I've never read this theory and can, thus, hardly say anything with confidence, but it seems a little bit odd. Does the myth of Perseus exist in the east? According to David Ulansey - in The Origins of the Mithraic Mysteries - there was a deeply-rooted cult of Perseus in Tarsus. He was reputed to be the founder of the city. Apparently Plutarch stated that the Mysteries started amongst the pirates in Cilicia (now southern Turkey) but I have not read him - yet! The capital was Tarsus. M L Vermaseren states that representations on coins from Tarsus show the bull-slaying. I think it is impossible to establish exactly where the Mysteries came from. I know that they were seen to have come originally from Persia. Porphyry in De Antro uses the term "Persians" when describing those invoved in the Mysteries of Mithras. Another rather odd coincidence - if it is - is that Perseus had a son called Perses. Herodotus says that he gave his name to Persia, which is a nice story but not true. But rather intriguing is the fact that Perses (the Persian) is one of the seven Mithraic grades. Fascinating stuff, though! Corax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) I've read Ulansey. I agree with the overal thesis that the role of astrology seems critical to the cult, but I think some of his details are wild conjecture. The bull probably represents the moon, as bull's horns are linked to the crescent moon in Greco-Roman astrology. Why does Mithras, the Invincible Sun, look away from the Bull/Moon at the moment of sacrifice? It's probably some central theological code known to the initiates of the cult, now lost to history. Edited March 12, 2011 by Ursus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvadius Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 This reminds me that I really must get around to reading the copy of Religions of Rome we have in the house. Not having read either it or the book references mentioned already I can only speculate but is it possible that sacrifices within the Cult were carried out as part of the Moon's cycle of waxing and waning? If this was so then the sacrifice may may have taken place during or around the period of the 'Dark of the moon' when the sun could literally be said to be looking the other way. This may also go some way to explaining the subterranean nature of Mithraic temples Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klingan Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 If this was so then the sacrifice may may have taken place during or around the period of the 'Dark of the moon' when the sun could literally be said to be looking the other way. This may also go some way to explaining the subterranean nature of Mithraic temples Did the Greeks understand the relation between the sun and the moon (i.e. that the moon could only glow by reflecting sunlight)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 That's an interesting theory, Melvadius ... Klingan, I don't think so. I could be wrong, but I don't think Greek scientists were that advanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribunicus Potestus Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) Could it be something as prosaic as a priest or king getting blood in his eyes. After that he might turn away before the sacrifice and if anyone complained he had the story of Perseus to justify his actions? Isn't that how high heels, fake moles, shaved heads on Samurai, powdered wigs and faces came into being? Taking a fault and elevating it to a virtue. Edited October 3, 2011 by Tribunicus Potestus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribunicus Potestus Posted October 3, 2011 Report Share Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) I think this is telling in the question of did the ancients understand the nature of the moon vis a vis the sun. My link Aristotle discussed the shadow of the earth on the moon and deduced the earth was spherical. He therefore knew it to be the earths shadow. Therefore it had to be the suns light. You're never gonna get rich by underestimating the ancients. Edited October 3, 2011 by Tribunicus Potestus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guy Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 I found this link very helpful understanding the Mysteries of Mithras and related cults: http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Periods/Roman/Topics/Religion/Mithraism/David_Fingrut**.html#tau guy also known as gaius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corax Posted October 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 I found this link very helpful understanding the Mysteries of Mithras and related cults: http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Periods/Roman/Topics/Religion/Mithraism/David_Fingrut**.html#tau guy also known as gaius Thanks for the link. There is some interesting info in Fingrut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Robert Turcan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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