Viggen Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 ...question from our Facebook Wall... Any suggestions on finding out how a Roman cistern worked IN the Villa. I know about aqueducts but where and how did one get water from the cistern? Via the impluvium?? cheers viggen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvadius Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 The simple answer is that it would depend on the individual villa most would presumably have some form of draw-shaft through which a bucket could be lowered into the cistern and water drawn up in much the same way as a well. I suppose a few may have a had a more involved system but basically the point of a cistern is to collect as much water as possible, often in areas subject to prolonged drought or where there is only limited available fresh water. The best form of cistern for use by a single household would be a 'sealed' container sunk into the ground to maximise the water collection although presumably there may also have been some facility to deal with overflows during severe storms. c/f Roger Ling (1997) The Insula of the Menander at Pompeii, Vol 1: the Structures, page 203: In the Insula of the Menander in Pompeii there are three individual villa's; one of these, the Casa Degli Amanti's, only water supply was from cisterns located under the atrium and the peristyle. The water from one of thse cisterns was drawn up through a draw-shaft spanned by a terracota puteal (well-head) about 70cm high with an internal diameter of 54cm. Apparently it was also common to use a well where there was ground water available and very few villa's had direct access to water from aqueducts which mainly supplied the baths and/or public fountains in the streets. It was not just the Roman's that used a system of cisterns and draw-shafts as can be seen from this photograph of a Punic building on Byrsa Hill where the access to the cistern is lying open and the draw shaft can be seen in the further room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Casca Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Melvidius, thank you. Milie gratis, You answer helps a great deal. However, I'm still not clear on how it works. So, here goes. A slave needs to wash the floor. She draws the water up through the well hole (can't remember the term for this) I'm assuming that is the 'half column' that is next to the impluvium. But that bugger looks small for buckets. But I can see how it would work. I presumed that was maybe an air shaft for gravity. Now the impluvium....it contained water as well. It drained into the cistern? It's water was used for cleaning etc? It was filled by labor/slaves or indicated the level of the water in the cistern? Was it separate from the cistern? Now I understand the location of cisterns being under the atrium. Most of the older houses in Pompeii worked from cisterns until the aqueduct brough in water as you said. I also wondered about if they had a siphon pump abilities and did these feed fountains? Of course they didn't have a spraying fountain but a lovely drizzle that filled a small pond from which the slaves could draw water. Thank you for your time. It is appreciated. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvadius Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 I understand that there are indications that at least in several instances the impluvium contained porous and non-porous stones in its base so that any water falling into it would slowly drain away and be naturally filtered into the cistern lying below it. This system would probably leave a little water in the impluvium, usually not enough to be used directly for washing floors except after a storm, which would slowly evaporate and have a cooling effect. Water in the cistern, as I indicated above, could be drawn out in a small bucket when needed through a draw-shaft which usually had a puteal (well-head) above it so people wouldn't fall into the access to the cistern. As to fountains I don't think that they were a common feature in villa's but if you have enough of a fall in height between the reservoir and where the water comes out then you can create a fountain just by the force of gravity - using 'siphons' as you suggested. The Roman's also made extensive use of siphons in their aqueducts principally when crossing some deep valley's. I haven't checked explicitly for this answer but in Pompeii the street 'fountains' were all linked to cisterns located at the highest point of the town where the aqueduct came into the town so they could have had enough pressure available to have 'true' fountains built in. In some of the richer villa's there is evidence that they had elevated 'header' tanks while others probably bought their own access to the public water supply (as indicated in Frontinus) and by photographs at this site which shows valves on lead piping whcih could have been used to regulate the flwo of water to a fountain or other water feature turing it on or off when required. Some of Pompeii's residents therefore would likely also have had enough pressure to create 'true' fountains if they wished inside their villa's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Casca Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Melvadius, thank you again. The picture is clearing up a bit. So, I see slaves filling utility buckets from the puteal at the head of the impluvium to do chores. This would be a daily occurance or a daily chore to fill some resevoir forlater use. The impluvium would not be suitable for fish or plants? However, the Getty Villa in Malibu, a replica of the one in Herculaneum,. has an impluvium for eels. And the swimming pool was possibly an exposed cistern from which to draw. Making sense? There were older impluviums in early villas that were walled up as much as three feet cornered with columns to support the roof I'm sure. Would these imluviums hold much more water than the later counterparts. Ie House of Faun in Pompeii? Why I am asking about all this is because I write in this period and frankly have no clue how to use impluviums and cisterns in my stories. They are of practical use as most things Roman but in someways I see them as ornamental due to the fact I don't totally understand how they function. Your information is gold to me. Thank you JC I understand that there are indications that at least in several instances the impluvium contained porous and non-porous stones in its base so that any water falling into it would slowly drain away and be naturally filtered into the cistern lying below it. This system would probably leave a little water in the impluvium, usually not enough to be used directly for washing floors except after a storm, which would slowly evaporate and have a cooling effect. Water in the cistern, as I indicated above, could be drawn out in a small bucket when needed through a draw-shaft which usually had a puteal (well-head) above it so people wouldn't fall into the access to the cistern. As to fountains I don't think that they were a common feature in villa's but if you have enough of a fall in height between the reservoir and where the water comes out then you can create a fountain just by the force of gravity - using 'siphons' as you suggested. The Roman's also made extensive use of siphons in their aqueducts principally when crossing some deep valley's. I haven't checked explicitly for this answer but in Pompeii the street 'fountains' were all linked to cisterns located at the highest point of the town where the aqueduct came into the town so they could have had enough pressure available to have 'true' fountains built in. In some of the richer villa's there is evidence that they had elevated 'header' tanks while others probably bought their own access to the public water supply (as indicated in Frontinus) and by photographs at this site which shows valves on lead piping whcih could have been used to regulate the flwo of water to a fountain or other water feature turing it on or off when required. Some of Pompeii's residents therefore would likely also have had enough pressure to create 'true' fountains if they wished inside their villa's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvadius Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I suspect you may be confusing the large open air ornamental pond located on the peristyle garden at the Villa of the Papyri with an impluvium. In the case of a villa such an ornamental pool presumably would have been fed by water accessed from either a town Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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