S.P.Q.R.

[Northern Neil]

Well, the title and topic description say it all. When was the last dateable use of the Roman slogan SENATVS POPVLVSQVE ROMANVS? Like many things, did this cease after the third century, once the primacy of Rome in the Empire had diminished?

[Melvadius]

Well, the title and topic description say it all. When was the last dateable use of the Roman slogan SENATVS POPVLVSQVE ROMANVS? Like many things, did this cease after the third century, once the primacy of Rome in the Empire had diminished?

 

Just to clarify I take it that, ignoring Mussolini resurrecting its use by printing it on numerous Italian manhole covers and several buildings, you are trying to find the last verifiable use of the term by either Imperial Rome or in the Eastern (Byzantium) successor empire?

[Maladict]

It was used on coins at least as late as the Constantinian era.

[Medusa]

But you still see it in Rome today marking modern municipal items such as lamp posts of street lamps or gully covers. You also see it on the subway trains.

[guy]

It was used on coins at least as late as the Constantinian era.

 

Here is the latest example I can find so far. It is on a coin of Constantine I (Image from Wildwinds.com):

 

 

Constantine I AE3. 312-313 AD. IMP CONSTANTINVS PF AVG, laureate, cuirassed bust right / SPQR OPTIMO PRINCIPI, legionary eagle between two vexilla, R P in ex. Cohen 558.

 

 

guy also known as gaius

[Ludovicus]

Wasn't the control of this acronym the prerogative of the Roman Senate?

If so, the last official use, in the West, would have ended with the demise of that body sometime in the sixth century CE.

Edited January 18, 2011 by Ludovicus

[Bryaxis Hecatee]

well S.P.Q.R. is still being used today by the city council of Rome, as it was during the Middle Ages in order to mark the Senate's difference from the pontifical administration. In fact I'm not sure it ever really stopped being in use, except maybe during tthe Gothic, Byzantine and/or Lombardian periods.

[Ludovicus]

The Medieval Roman Senate was not a continuation of the former body that ruled the City and the Empire.

 

From allexperts.com:

the Roman Senate continued to exist after the end of the Empire in 476: even though it lost much of its importance after the capital was moved to Constantinople, the Senate was never abolished, and continued its work well after christianity became the official religion of the state. It regained some importance when Justinian conquered Italy during the Ghotic Wars (535-554), and the last known record of Senate activities was an embassy sent to the emperor in Constantinople in year 580.

It's not very clearly what happened afterward, but we know an homily by Pope Gregory the Great around the year 590, lamenting the disappearance of such an ancient institution.

However, during the 12th century the people of Rome struggled against the Papal authority to re-create a Republic, and in 1144 a new Senate was created, as a consultory body for the civic government; the Pope regained full control of Rome in 1155, abolishing the Commune, but the Senate continued to exist, and has existed since then, becoming finally the city council of Rome, housed in the so-called Palazzo Senatorio (Senatorial Palace) on the Capitol Hill.

When Constantinople was chosen as the new capital of the Empire, a Senate was created there, and it continued to exist till the 12th century. After the Fourth Crusade (1204) Constantinople became the seat of the Latin Empire of the East, without a Senate, and when the Byzantines reconquered the city in 1261, they didn't re-establish a Senate.

http://en.allexperts...oman-senate.htm

 

well S.P.Q.R. is still being used today by the city council of Rome, as it was during the Middle Ages in order to mark the Senate's difference from the pontifical administration. In fact I'm not sure it ever really stopped being in use, except maybe during tthe Gothic, Byzantine and/or Lombardian periods.

Edited January 18, 2011 by Ludovicus

[Bryaxis Hecatee]

I did not mean to say that there was a direct continuation between the two senates, sorry if I've been unclear. So if there was a period during which SPQR might have fallen into disuse it would have been between 580 and 1144... A period during which there was little building activity outside of churches and private houses, and a lot of re-use of previous building material.

[Ludovicus]

The Curia itself (Roman Senate House located in the Roman Forum) was converted into the St. Hadrian's Church, Sant Adriano (in Italian).

http://www.romeguidedtour.com/home/Monument.asp?ids=289&artist=CURIA%20JULIA

 

CURIA JULIA

The big stone construction of Curia Julia was brought to the light in 1930's, after the 7th century church of St. Adriano, erected over it, was destroyed. Caesar built it to substitute the Curia Hostilia which was destroyed by a fire. Curia Julia was completed by Augustus in 29 B.C. and reconstructed in 94 A.D by Domitian. The interior 27m long, 18m wide and 21m high was discovered and restored in 1930-1934 by Alfonso Bartoli; the pavement of the hall still preserves the original marbles. The three broad marble-faced steps on the two long sides provided seats for some 300 senators. The existing doors are copies of the original ones removed by Alexander VII to the Basilica of St John Lateran. Two big marble relieves exposed here represent the scenes from the epoch of Trajan. In front of the Curia there are numerous bases of honor statues erected here in the imperial epoch. Lapis Niger: close to the Curia, under the tract of the 6th century B.C. pavement of black stones, in 1899 was discovered a complex archaic monument, with an ancient inscription on a square stele on all four sides (providing the most ancient example of the Latin language), a warning against profaning a holy place. Here the tomb of Romulus or of some other deified founder of the city was identified.

 

 

 

I did not mean to say that there was a direct continuation between the two senates, sorry if I've been unclear. So if there was a period during which SPQR might have fallen into disuse it would have been between 580 and 1144... A period during which there was little building activity outside of churches and private houses, and a lot of re-use of previous building material.

[guy]

One has to love those modern Roman manhole covers:

 

 

 

guy also known as gaius

[tk421]

I concur that the best estimated date would be in the Sixth Century AD when the Roman Senate was finally dissolved.