gilius Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Can you come up with a list of known Roman Towns on the quickest route between London to Rome during the time of, say, 150 AD? I'm offering the following cash rewards via PayPal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agamemnus Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 How could we tell if a town was a small town? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilius Posted January 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) Small-Town is the widely accepted archaeological term for a village, i.e. a lesser settlement that wasn't a town. How do we know if a settlement was a true town? *It could have a tribal name indicating it was a civitas or could have something like "Colonia" before the name. *A forum-basilica has been discovered or known to have existed for the settlement (or a mixture of public buildings such as bath-house(s) with temple(s) and a street grid). Edited January 7, 2011 by gilius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilius Posted January 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Here's the route to get you started: Londinium/Augusta Noviomagus Vagniacis Durobrivae Durovernum Portus Dubris Gesoriacum/Bononia Tarvenna Nemetacum Augusta Viromanduorum Chatillon-sur-Oise Mesbrecourt-Richecourt Durocortorum/Civitas Remorum Durocatalaunum Corobilium? Brienne-la-Veille Segessera Andemantunnum Segobodium Vesontio Arlorica Irba Lousonna Vivisco/Viviscus Penne Locos Tarnaias? Acammum Octodurus/Forum Claudii Vallensium Augusta Pretoria Vitricium Eporedia Vercellae Cuttiae Laumellum Durriae Ticinum Lambrum Ad Rota(s) Ad Padum Placentia Florenti(ol)a Fidentia Ad Tarum Parma Regium Lepidum Pons Seciae Mutina Voctoriolae Forum Gallorum (off road slightly) Ad Medias Felsina/Bononia Ad Idicem Claterna Ad Silarum Forum Cornelii Ad Sinnium Faventia Forum Livii Forum Popilii Caesena Compitum ad Confluentes Ariminum Pisaurum Fanum Fortunae Ad Octavum Forum Sempronii Intercisa/Petra Pertusa Cales Ad Aesim Helvillum Tadinae Nuceria Forum Flaminii Fulginiae Mevania Carsulae Nequinum/Narnia Ocriculum Aqua Viva Rostrata Villa Ad Vicesismum Ad Gallinas Albas Pons Mulvius Roma Most of the above are small towns or minor settlements, but can you identify the few true towns? That is really what the challenge is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Paulinus Maximus Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Maybe you should invest in the official UNRV Roman Empire map!!http://www.unrv.com/roman-map-for-sale.php This should help you out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilius Posted January 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Maybe you should invest in the official UNRV Roman Empire map!!http://www.unrv.com/roman-map-for-sale.php This should help you out! Unfortunately, the UNRV map can't help with this challenge anymore than the Barrington Atlas can! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvadius Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Here's the route to get you started: Londinium/Augusta <SNIP>Roma Most of the above are small towns or minor settlements, but can you identify the few true towns? That is really what the challenge is! Well as you have now listed the towns/ settlements on what you seem to believe is the quickest route that's the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilius Posted January 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 I think that's the quickest route, but it doesn't really matter what route you take: besides listing random Roman settlements, actually identifying the important settlements, i.e. known Roman Towns--outside of Britannia--seems virtually impossible without going through hundreds of archaeological reports published in many different languages as well as consulting primary historical sources. This is only goes to show how exceptional Roman scholarship/publication is in Britain and how lousy Roman historians are in other European countries! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvadius Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 ...<snip>.... This is only goes to show how exceptional Roman scholarship/publication is in Britain and how lousy Roman historians are in other European countries! Not necessarily; both France and Germany have a long and at least as illustrious pedigree for Roman studies as Britain while Spanish, Italian and Dutch archaeologists and historians also have had a strong presence at several specialist conferences I have attended in Britain with other European countries usually also represented. The specialist Roman research libraries such as the Classics Library of the Society for the Promotion of Roman Studies, currently based at Senate House in London, usually carry numerous reference books which are not written in English. Every year the list of reviews of foreign Roman related books published in the Roman Societies annual Journal of Roman Studies runs to at least 50% of the 'English language' works listed and I'm sure that many more are not even reviewed. It is probably a truer statement to say that most of this research has only a limited history of translation into English, making it generally unavailable to those of us who are not fluent in any other language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilius Posted January 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Well, I am a member of that Society based at Senate House, and I have looked through every one of their French and German books as well as the Galia journal, but haven't come across a single comprehensive map of any Gallic, Germanic, Spanish or North African province. You could even read a book like this and still have no clue as to what Roman towns were in Italy besides the obvious such as Rome, Pompeii and a few others they chose to write about... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cities-Roman-Italy-Classical-World/dp/1853997285 However, there are scores of books about Roman Britain that will provide town information at a simple glance. Coloniae Colchester (Camulodunum) Gloucester (Glevem) Lincoln (Lindum) York (Eboracum) Municipia St Albans (Verulamium) Civitates Aldborough (Isurium Brigantium) Brough (Petuaria) Caerwent (Venta Silurum) Caistor-by-Norwich (Venta Icenorum) Canterbury (Durovernum Cantiacorum) Carmarthen (Moridunum Demetarum) Chelmsford (Trinovantum) Chichester (Noviomagus Reginorum) Cirencester (Corinium Dobunnorum) Dorchester (Durnovaria) Exeter (Isca Dumniorum) Leicester (Ratae Corieltauvorum) Silchester (Calleva Atrebatum) Winchester (Venta Belgarum) Wroxeter (Viroconium Cornoviorum) Unknown Status London (Londinium) However, try and find out any Municipia of Gaul and Germany. After 3 years of research, I've only managed to find out 1 and 4 respectively, but certain authors/historians have hinted they know of many more, yet they don't bother mentioning or mapping them. Ok, here's another challenge... at least 10 Roman circuses are known in Gaul; simply list 5 of them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvadius Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 In which case you know that offering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilius Posted January 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Yep! The information should be readily available, and I just don't understand why it's not... I was recommended one book by the author of Romans, Celts and Germans that isn't at Senate House, and I had to go to the British Library to view it, but it only lists towns and small-towns that were known up until 1994 and fails to mention status/type: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryaxis Hecatee Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 The thing is that we do have a lot of holes in our records for those areas because we don't have sources on the topics or have huge difficulties understanding them when we get them. Even for Belgium, which I obviously know a bit better thanks to my studies, I know we have a lot of issues and can't say how many civitates were on the territories, and even less the amount of pagi, despite the fact that we now know most roads. Hell, for a long time we also dated as roman a wooden road which was finally shown in the 70's or 80's to be carolingian (we had no artifacts and it was finally C14 which settled the issue). We also have place where we have a small town around a little temple but no epigraphy outside of I.O.M. and other similary short dedictions... The U.K., with it's large military presence, is thus an unusal case when compared to many other places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilius Posted January 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) I believe the information is available, but that French/German historians only provide/publish a sample of their data. For example, when I see maps inside books, no effort is ever made to comprehensively present what is known about towns. What Civitas/tribal area in Belgium is patchy or what specific town problems have you encountered with that small region due to lack of sources? I am going to study some primary sources and see if I am able to come up with the 21 towns of Roman Britain without any help from secondary sources. If I can do it then, in theory, I should be able to apply that to any other Western province of the Roman Empire. In fact, I think the sources should be better for Gaul, Germany and especially Italy; for Britain, most of the Peutinger table is lost, yet all that is known about towns (and small-towns) is published and readily accessible: we have about 4-5 books specifically about "Towns Of Roman Britain" as well as 2-3 on the Small-towns. What's more, most general books on Roman Britain will show the 21 towns and state the ones that were Colonia and the one Municipium we know about and speculate about London; this is skeleton framework that every general book about Roman Britain worth it's salt is based on. Why don't the French or German historians attempt the same thing for their countries? All their efforts seem to have been put into the Limes. Edited January 8, 2011 by gilius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvadius Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Agreed that there is quite a bit of information about the status of Roman towns in Britain - thanks in large part to the early eforts of Wacher and those who followed him. However even in Britain there is still a lot of debate about precisely when certain towns status changed, as we know many did throughout the four centuries of Roman occupation, due to the very limited epigraphic records in most of the country. London as you have already indicated is the worst example of our limited knowledge of it's precise status at just about any point in time from when it was established until the Roman army left Britain. If you try and extrapolate from Britain to Continental Europe I suspect you will find that the picture is similarly confused with many towns either not excavated or with no epigraphic evidence from the area's excavated to date. That may be the 'real' explanation for whny you have not had much luck in obtaining a 'simple' map giving the information you are seeking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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