What's Up With That?!

[caldrail]

LOL!

 

This is a forum, not a english exam. Besides, I prefer to treat peoples opinions with respect whether I agree or not. I'm entitled to an opinion too.

 

In a sense I agree provided the tribune to be promoted has actually commanded in battle. Commanding say, a cohort or an army is different, largely due to less coherence with increasing size.

 

Hey... I used a clever word!

[Germanicus]

This is a forum, not a english exam. Besides, I prefer to treat peoples opinions with respect whether I agree or not. I'm entitled to an opinion too

 

Caldrail, my writing comment was not meant as a dig at you, I should have said "some people have no talent for painting".

[Viggen]

to start off... why did rome take so long to defeate some of the enimies and why did it take them even longer to defeate hannibal?

 

...or one can ask "Why did hardly any enemy defeat the romans and why did Hannibal not conquer Rome..."

 

regards

viggen

[mquish]

true rome was not built in a day but hannibal was a pain to beat, and the real problem was the romans were trying too hard to beat him, that they didn't see the easiest way to beat him. okay new question

 

who do you think did rome have the hardest time with (besides hannibal)

 

Nero

[Primus Pilus]

true rome was not built in a day but hannibal was a pain to beat, and the real problem was the romans were trying too hard to beat him, that they didn't see the easiest way to beat him. okay new question

 

who do you think did rome have the hardest time with (besides hannibal)

 

Nero

 

Care to elaborate on how Nero fits into the context of the thread?

[Jimbow]

Experience in combat is vital and hard won. Some people have talent for battlefield command, others never will whatever education they had.

 

So what? That doesn't mean education and training isn't necessary. I'd rather have a well-educated and well-trained aristocrat of moderate experience than an illiterate legionary with tons of battle experience leading my army. Again, there's more to winning a war than just sword-play. If you can't feed your army, you're done for.

 

Centurions came from the ranks (as a general rule), but in order to reach that status they had had to be organisers and have a grasp of logistics; be leaders. There are examples of tribunes dithering or holding back when action was necessary, only to be superceded by the centurion who makes the decision for them (the most notable being the centurion guts the tribune and leads the men to victory, for which he is praised). More to the point, the Praefectus Castrorum had also come from the centurion ranks and was third in command of a legion, outranking the tribunes except the Tribunus Laticlavius.

 

However, many Tribuni Angusticlavii could be career soldiers and command very effectively, and did engage in tactical command. They could also be quite fierce and were not shy of showing virtus and taking on the enemy in single combat, or committing acts of great bravery and daring. However, the second in command, the Tribunus Laticlavius was someone I would prefer not to be led by, due to his inexperience and the nature of his appointment. I dare say the Legate would prefer to take the advice of the other officers, and I also dare say the fathers of many newly appointed Tribuni Laticlavii, themselves probably having had such an experience, quietly told their sons to take great heed of the words of the other ranks mentioned before embarking on taking up his post

Edited March 6, 2006 by Jimbow

[Furius Venator]

It's certainly fashionable to assume that the centurians were largely ex-rankers. Rather surprisingly though, very little evidence supports this. Under the empire, only a few centurion's tombstones refer to previous experience and there is plenty of evidence from a wide variety of sources to suggest that many were 'directly commissioned'.

 

That is not to say that the majority of centurions were not former rankers, only that what little evidence exists actually indicates the opposite! (For the empire at least).

[Primus Pilus]

It's certainly fashionable to assume that the centurians were largely ex-rankers. Rather surprisingly though, very little evidence supports this. Under the empire, only a few centurion's tombstones refer to previous experience and there is plenty of evidence from a wide variety of sources to suggest that many were 'directly commissioned'.

 

That is not to say that the majority of centurions were not former rankers, only that what little evidence exists actually indicates the opposite! (For the empire at least).

 

When we consider that the position of centurion, a relatively low rank in Roman society, still provided an excellent opportunity to give political 'reward' to friends and family, its easy to understand how it became a position much like any other that was affected by appointees. I would maintain however, with no real evidence to support this other than logic, that the highest ranking centurions within each legion were men of military merit and not political appointment. (Unless of course those appointees also proved their merit on the field)

[Furius Venator]

In fact the Primus Pilus seems to have risen from the ranks only rarely, more often having entered the army as a centurion. This of course would still mean he had plentiful experience.

 

Again, the evidence is mainly Imperial and does not really exist in enough quantity to be dogmatic about it.

[Primus Pilus]

In fact the Primus Pilus seems to have risen from the ranks only rarely, more often having entered the army as a centurion. This of course would still mean he had plentiful experience.

 

Again, the evidence is mainly Imperial and does not really exist in enough quantity to be dogmatic about it.

 

Agreed... but considering the importance of the Primus Pilus, it seems very unlikely that an unexperienced political whelp would be appointed directly to that position, prior to having gained appropriate battlefield experience as perhaps a lower posterior level centurion first. Still, clearly as you suggest we cannot conclude that it never happened.

 

As a bit of a semi related aside, Vegetius, among numerous faults, hardly found officer experience or promotion worthy of mention. He does say this regarding the Praefectus Castrorum at least...

 

This post was always conferred on an officer of great skill, experience and long service, and who consequently was capable of instructing others in those branches of the profession in which he had distinguished himself.

[Furius Venator]

It's strange that none of the surviving military manuals really discuss the appointment of officers.

[Princeps]

LOL!

 

This is a forum, not a english exam. Besides, I prefer to treat peoples opinions with respect whether I agree or not. I'm entitled to an opinion too.

 

Good thing it's not "a english" exam