Guest spartacus Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 The question for my post is WHY did it take rome such a long time to finally defeat Hannibal ? Is it because Cannae sent out a shock-wave to Rome and frightened them so much that they thought Hannibal as invincible? Rome had many oppurtunities and either missed them or did not have the stomach to take him on! On many occassions his men deserted and his numbers depleted, other times they were starving, and resorted to eating grass, surely an oppurtune moment to attack! On numerous occassions his force was shadowed by two consular armies, but again, they never took advantage! Hannibal had a superior cavalry force but faced with two massive armies I am positive he would have been defeated! He was rarely supplied from Carthage, lived off the land stayed in Italy for years! Your thoughts on this subject please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 The Romans learned that Hannibal was superior on the battlefield, but yet didn't have the resources necessary to do permanent damage. Essentially, after getting their asses handed to them initially, the Romans swallowed their pride and held Hannibal 'in check', while Scipio conquered Hannibal's Spanish power base and Hannibal exhausted himself from a logistics perspective. At first Rome was definately scared of Hannibal, with good reason. As time passed a number of factors swung in the favor of Rome's moral (loyalty of the Italian allies, lack of supply for Hannibal, Scipio's successes, etc.) and there was no reason to risk another defeat for pride's sake. Even when Hannibal did eventually march on Rome, the people knew it was a hopeless gesture and auction evidence shows that prices of land surrounding Rome (where Hannibal was camped) actually was holding or going up in value. Could they have defeated Hannibal in Italy? Possibly. But the risk outweighed the reward. One dangerous possibility was that losing more men could've turned the tide in Hannibal's favor and sent the Italian allies over to his side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skel Posted January 31, 2005 Report Share Posted January 31, 2005 i think a large part of hannibles success against the romans was due to his use of battle tactics that the romans werent very used to fighitng against. such as hannibles ambush at lake..tresimine? i forget the names of battles sometimes.. if im not mistaken hannible did several ambush attacks on the romans, and his use of cavalry and the elephants(in the earlier battles) helped him out a substantial(sp?) amount.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spartacus Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Thanks Primuspilus for your reply! At the later stages of Hannibals "occupation" I believe he could have been defeated as at that time Rome DID have the man power and resources! His brother Hasdrubal was marching south with a large force down the eastern coast of Italy to link up with Hannibal, Rome recognised the threat and whilst a consular army kept Hannibal in check, two armies marched on Hasdrubal and finally drew him into battle, the romans were joined by a third army under Claudius Nero whom completed a 6 day, 250 forced march! The Cartaginians were slaughtered in their thousands, the baggage train captured including a number of elephants! What would have made sense to me is that the greatest of oppurtunities was there if the 3 armies then turned south, link up with the 4th army and attack Hannibal directly as they matched, if not exceeded his cavalry force which was the greater threat to the romans, incredibly, they returned to Rome to celebrate their earlier triumph! Also, again in the later stages, the allies were deserting Hannibals cause, which was due to Romes retribution to cities/states that joined on Hannibals side, also Hannibal was not re-supplied from Carthage and his force was now seriously depleted, a golden oppurtunity was definately missed and eventually Hannibal was evacuated back to Cartage! So, yes, Hannibal could have been defeated on italian soil in my opinion, but due to Romes hesitancy he got away and the 2nd Punic war dragged on! Regards Spartacus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Yes I suppose it dragged on... a final pitched battle may have ended it earlier, but it wasn't really much long until Scipio crossed to Africa and ended any doubt in the matter anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spartacus Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Because Rome did not seize the inititive the war dragged on resulting in greater loss of roman life, so a final assault on hannibal would make sense from that point of view! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman wargamer Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 211 BC Upper Baetis the Carthaginians win Hasdrubal the Romans lost Gnaeus and Publius Cornelius Scipio both was killed and drove the Romans into Ebro it is not Africanus who defleted the Carthage Spain force after the 211 BC Upper Baetis battle , both Scipio was killed Hasdrubal march south going to Rome,and was deafeted by M. Livius Salinitor and C. Cladius Nero it is here where the main force in Spain was desroyed So when the young Scipio was send to Spain, the forces left there is no longer a threat 210 P. Cornelius Scipio son of the just died general,just 25 years old was given a proconsul power and was sent to Spain and later known as Africanus after the battle at Zama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 The Carthaginians in Hispania weren't done yet. Don't discount the efforts of Scipio to finish off the enemy. Scipio in Spain 210 - 207 BC Scipio in Spain 206 - 205 BC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeke Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Hey Spartacus......I desegree with you on your view. In those days, "The Roman amries" couldn't hook up as fast today and there would be days of delay between comunication. The Romans were geunitlly affraid of Hannibal and imagine if Hannibal had one another battle like Canae if the Romans had tryed one last pitched battle in Italy. I am thinking Hannibal would have won that then marched on ROme and seige it till it ran out of food. So I doubt that the Romans could have won in another pitched battle. And his brother only lost because he was a bad commander and heavly out numbered. Sorry about spelling Zeke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spartacus Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Dear Zeke Thanks for your reply, everyone is entitled to their opinion! The oppurtunity to take Hannibal was there if the armies had linked up, for instance at Cannae, Hannibal enjoyed a greater cavalry strength which was one of the deciding factors in the outcome! Now when was in southern italy his army was severely depleted, his men starving on the other hand if the three Roman armies HAD linked up,they would have outnumbered Hannibals infantry by around 8 to 1, in cavalry 3 to 1, and they were well supplied and fed! To that end, if they had met in battle it is my opinion Hannibal would have lost! But we shall never know! Regards Spartacus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Yes, they were much larger in terms of numbers... but they were green... and scared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spartacus Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Not all were green and scared! It is still my opinion he could have been defeated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amcrazyjus Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Is it because Cannae sent out a shock-wave to Rome and frightened them so much that they thought Hannibal as invincible? Rome had many oppurtunities and either missed them or did not have the stomach to take him on! that is one to think about i mean come on when rme could take hannibal on they didn't they missed alot of times they could have stomped him out like a fire, but hannibal just kept burnning their toes. My thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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