Doubting The Gods Of The Roman Empire

[Ray Fletcher]

Hello everyone! I have some questions about the religious atmosphere in ancient Rome. I have been doing some research on the skepticism of the gods in ancient Rome after reading the book The Church in History, written by B.A. Kuiper. The first chapter of the book decribes that Jesus couldn't have come on the scene at a better time, because the religious condition at that time was full of doubt about the Roman gods. The premise is that the people would be more inclined to latch onto this new religion (christianity) if their current beleifs are faltering. Is this true? Here is an excerpt from the book that better articulates all this:

 

"4. Not only did these physical conditions help the cause of the new Christian missionaries, but the spiritual and intellectual climate was also readied for their work. Greece had spread her culture throughout the near east and had "conquered" Rome with her civilization.

 

The Greek Language had become the world language, one that would enable Paul to communicate with all his hearers in that part of the Roman empire where Paul did most of his work. When Paul quoted the OT to the Jews, whom he met on his journeys, his quotations were from the Septuigint, a Greek version of the OT made as early as 200 years before Christ.

 

Greek Philosophy made many people doubt their gods whose strange activities now began to fade into myth and legend. The Roman gods came into disrepute, and many officials of the Empire continued to encourage religion only because such belief served to curtail revolt among the common people. The Roman state religion was clearly a political affair that offered no peace of mind to a disturbed soul. All this left a moral vacuum that boded no good for the world.

 

Under such conditions, the Gospels came with it's promise of peace, pardon from sin, rest for the heavy laden. Here was assurance, forgiveness, life, and salvation in Christ. This was the message that struck home, and the fullness of time made the rapid spread of this Word possible"

 

 

 

I would greatly appreciate any feedback.

[Primus Pilus]

There is certainly some truth in it, though I'd have to read more to understand the entire context. Still I can comment a little. The old gods, the traditions and customs were being muddied as the empire spread. While the Roman culture traveled to the outer provinces and beyond, new ideas and ways of life from these far away places began to alter the mindset of the masses. There are several threads where religion is discussed in detail and we touch on this subject about. Take a look around, you may find some of what you're looking for is already spread around.

[Ray Fletcher]

I know this is a vaugely specific topic, but do you know of any books that were written that deal with this aspect of religious sentiments in the Roman Empire? or any books that may even referrence any trends of doubt and skepticism within the people of those days with regards to their particular beleif system?

[Ursus]

Yes, its true the old gods of Rome lost some prestige and following as time went on and the empire became more troubled. But the triumph of Christianity wasn't written in stone. A lot of other "foreign" religions were also popular at the time. And Romans, being Roman, often belonged to several of them at once.

 

Also, even after Rome turned to Christianity, most people still performed ancestor rites. That's one aspect of paganism that never lost the people's imagination. Only the death threat from the Christian government finally put a stop to ancestor worship.

 

Robert Turcan and John Scheid have written about the subject from the perspective of Roman paganism. You might want to check out their books. I'm sure there are also hundreds of book on the subject from a Christian perspective.

[Ray Fletcher]

I've been doing some digging around and found the following on the internet:

 

The state religion of the Roman Empire was the worship of the gods of Olympus. And since the reign of the Emperor Augustus (27BC-AD14), the emperor was treated as divine together with the Olympian deities. The worship of the Olympian deities involves simply the sprinkling of a pinch of incense and is done only on formal occasions. It is an act with patriotic rather than religious significance, roughly similar to saluting the flag and singing the national anthem today. The educated citizens of the empire, being educated in the great humanist tradition of Greece, no longer holds any belief in the Olympian gods; they perform the rites merely as a formality to show their allegiance to the emperor and the empire

 

 

Does this also have any truth to it? That the educated citizens were less inclined to beleive in the gods, but rather participated in the rituals as merely tradition?

 

And thanks for that book suggestion; i've found their book Cults of the Roman Empire on Amazon.

[Ursus]

The educated citizens were educated in the Greek tradition and did tend to go for Greek Philosophy. Many versions of Hellenistic philosophy subscribed to a single and ultimate source of divinity, a disdain for wordly glory, a system of austere ethics, and in some cases a belief in asceticism and mysticism designed to liberate the soul. You can see the Greek Philosophical spin on paganism is pretty close to the worldview of Christianity, and some would say there is a direct link between the two.

 

The most popular Hellenistic philosophy in upper class Rome was Stoicism. Ever try reading Cicero or Marcus Aurelius? Their writing reminds me of church sermons. I would say Hellenistic philosophy laid the groundwork for much of Christianity.

 

 

The State (public) aspect of Roman religion was dry, mechanical, legalistic. It was performed by a bevy of State officials on behalf of the State and directed toward the State's gods. There was little in the way of morality and emotionalism. The only thing that mattered was that the gods received the correct sacrifices on the correct dates. The only participation of the public in these rites would be sharing in some of the free meat from the sacrifice (which no doubt is the only reason some of the poor folk attended - free food!). Yes, public religion in Rome was more about "patriotism" than spirituality as we understand it. And as time went on, these state cults which were never especially emotional to the people to begin with lost some of their prestige and fell to foreign gods offering more to the individual.

 

I do reiterate though that's only one level of Roman religion. The private religion conducted by Romans in their homes, social clubs and trade guilds on behalf of ancestors and certain choice gods never fell out of favor until the Christian government proscribed the death penalty for it.

[Zeke]

There were two types of Roman Paganism....

 

The first one was for the common people who mainly lived in the country and the poor slums of the cities these people were most likely last to convert to Christainity clinging tightly to the old ways,

 

The Second one was the more rationalist, Sceintific approach that the upperclass favor.....Sotics is a big one one and Marcus Aurelius is its for runner. Also alot of Hellenistic Philosphy was mixed in there. These people used religion to their personal advantage not to explain things and to exploit everyone else..so they just saw Christanity as another way to exploit.

 

But I think that the Romans were eaisly converted not because their religion was weak or anything it was just that the Romans tended to go with the new fad that came along.....Christainity turned out to be a very dangerous fad. Mithrasim was very strong when Christanity first started to take the rains of government and the two forces battled it out for Mitrhasim was more aggresive in convertion and such then other Pagan Religions because like Christainity, it offered something. But it ended as well when Theodeious gave his anti-Pagan decree in 394 A.D. and outlawed all practice of Paganism throughout the Roman Empire.

 

The Romans simply went with the trend at the time if they could see into the future they would have made sure Christainity became extinct..not to be anti Christian of coarse I am just saying that I doubt the Romans would have wanted to live under such an oppresive Church that came latter in the middle ages then the liberal State runned Pagan temples.

 

Sorry about spelling,

Zeke

[Zeke]

And to add Viggen or whoever the moderator is on this site....its ironic how their is a Catholic Web Page commerical right under where is says UNRV history asking for you to be forgiven by god. I find that ironic seeing as how were talking about State Run Paganism in the Roman Empire lol,

 

Zeke

[pompeius magnus]

Like it or not, Europe and America are Christian dominated, for me I like it, but for others it is more of a problem.

[Ursus]

This is probably a separate topic, and perhaps off topic, but I think the Christian "domination" of Europe and America is often superficial.

 

Europe seems to be largely secular in practice, aside from a swelling Islamic minority.

 

In America, certainly most people pay lip service to Christianity and honor the important festivals. But if you look at the real values of the culture, I don't think it's Christian so much as ... Capitalist. I think Capitalism is the only true "religion" that really affects America on all levels. And I don't necessarily have a problem with that.

 

But I think we've gotten to a point in America not unlike a point of Greek and Roman history. The Protestant majority in America, which used to rule with an iron hand, is shrinking. Under the impact of imperial wealth, a lot of people are becoming more and more and secular and care more about money than religion (there is where Capitalism comes in). Under the impact of multiculturalism, other people are trying their hand at different religions and exotic cults. Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, New Age and other religions are on the rise. Certainly most people still formally associate with some version of Christianity, but I don't think the identification is universal and sincere as it once was.

[Zeke]

Ursus has a point, about Capitlism being a sort of religion. But to point out the reason George W.Bush won the elected was because of fantical Christians who believed in morals and values so Christianity in America is not dead yet just not as strong as it once was.

 

Zeke

[Silentium]

Hello everyone! I have some questions about the religious atmosphere in ancient Rome. I have been doing some research on the skepticism of the gods in ancient Rome after reading the book The Church in History, written by B.A. Kuiper. The first chapter of the book decribes that Jesus couldn't have come on the scene at a better time, because the religious condition at that time was full of doubt about the Roman gods. The premise is that the people would be more inclined to latch onto this new religion (christianity) if their current beleifs are faltering. Is this true? Here is an excerpt from the book that better articulates all this:

 

"4. Not only did these physical conditions help the cause of the new Christian missionaries, but the spiritual and intellectual climate was also readied for their work. Greece had spread her culture throughout the near east and had "conquered" Rome with her civilization.

 

The Greek Language had become the world language, one that would enable Paul to communicate with all his hearers in that part of the Roman empire where Paul did most of his work. When Paul quoted the OT to the Jews, whom he met on his journeys, his quotations were from the Septuigint, a Greek version of the OT made as early as 200 years before Christ.

 

Greek Philosophy made many people doubt their gods whose strange activities now began to fade into myth and legend. The Roman gods came into disrepute, and many officials of the Empire continued to encourage religion only because such belief served to curtail revolt among the common people. The Roman state religion was clearly a political affair that offered no peace of mind to a disturbed soul. All this left a moral vacuum that boded no good for the world.

 

Under such conditions, the Gospels came with it's promise of peace, pardon from sin, rest for the heavy laden. Here was assurance, forgiveness, life, and salvation in Christ. This was the message that struck home, and the fullness of time made the rapid spread of this Word possible"

 

 

 

I would greatly appreciate any feedback.

Yes, that