agora-the movie

[georgious]

I would like those of you who have seen the film "Agora" about the life of the pagan philosopher and mathematician Hypatia, in late Roman Egypt illuminate me on the stance it adopts on issues concerning the role the Christians and religious rivalries during that age-because some people in Athens regarded it as a vindication of the free thinking ancient worldview against the emerging obscurantism of rising Christianity and the eventual halt to scientific pursuit it's final dominance heralded.

[Northern Neil]

...some people in Athens regarded it as a vindication of the free thinking ancient worldview against the emerging obscurantism of rising Christianity and the eventual halt to scientific pursuit it's final dominance heralded.

...which is what a lot of people think today, and what I thought when I read about the tragic lynching of Hypatia in Carl Sagan's Cosmos. I have yet to see the film, but one or two others on the forum have alluded to its 'anti Christian' attitude. My personal view is that it is difficult NOT to have a negative view towards the particular bunch of fanatics who carried out this murder, set as it is amongst a backdrop of Theodosius' dismantling of Classical culture in general. I think it is time I sprang into action and bought a copy of this film from Amazon.

[georgious]

...some people in Athens regarded it as a vindication of the free thinking ancient worldview against the emerging obscurantism of rising Christianity and the eventual halt to scientific pursuit it's final dominance heralded.

...which is what a lot of people think today, and what I thought when I read about the tragic lynching of Hypatia in Carl Sagan's Cosmos. I have yet to see the film, but one or two others on the forum have alluded to its 'anti Christian' attitude. My personal view is that it is difficult NOT to have a negative view towards the particular bunch of fanatics who carried out this murder, set as it is amongst a backdrop of Theodosius' dismantling of Classical culture in general. I think it is time I sprang into action and bought a copy of this film from Amazon.

Well I did see the movie today and it absolutely presented that view. I am aware of the end of Hypatia and the movie on that matter is modest presenting a censored version of events. Otherwise the portrayal of Cyril, the leader of Alexandrian Christians is very negative and conforms with Bertrand Russell's opinion in his "History of Western Philosophy":"St Cyril, the advocate of unity, was a man of fanatical zeal. He used his position as patriarch to incite pogroms against the very large Jewish colony in Alexandria. His chief claim to fame is the lynching of Hypatia, a distinguished lady who, in an age of bigotry, adhered to the Neoplatonic philosophy and devoted her talents to mathematics."

 

The large bunch of fanatics, whom Cyril manipulates for his purposes, are called "Parabalanoi" in the movie(I have not confirmed their existence during that age) and they are a form of a para-religious body of zealots, used to terrorize Jews and pagans, kill, pillage and destroy(and rape, as it is hinted) and are finally responsible for Hypatia's death.

 

The pagans get a better press in general.

[Ursus]

The pagans get a better press in general.

 

Which is interesting, considering Pagan Rome was the Evil Empire of an earlier generation of Hollywood.

 

Anyway, does anyone know when this movie will actually be released in North America?

[Bryaxis Hecatee]

I've seen the movie in Paris last month and, as I said then ( http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?s=&amp...st&p=102093 ) I must say that I' was bluffed away. Yes they are some issues with the historical reconstruction (building in the wrong place, soldiers' outfit not fitting for the period, ...) but the plot is interesting, the themes spoken of are numerous and well treated, not putting any blame on a religion but on fanaticism, ambition and blind stupidity, and it is a moving and rare description of the fall of the Roman Empire, much worth seeing.

 

It use a lot of allegories and symbolism (like the Occulus of the Atrium) but does also have wonderfull pictures.

 

All in all a very good movie.

 

Cyril is a bad guy in the movie ? Yes of course, for he was indeed a bad guy at the time. But other christians do show a better side of their faith, and Cyril isn't the only bishop shown in the movie. His forces were mindless brutes ? Yes they were, as shown by their actions. But it's not faith that is at the heart of their behaviour, it's fanaticism, ignorance and intolerance. And the stupidity of the Jewish and even Pagan fanatics is also shown. So to me it's not really anti-christians, if it is against something it is more against intolerance, which is more often something monotheist suffer from...

[georgious]

. His forces were mindless brutes ? Yes they were, as shown by their actions. But it's not faith that is at the heart of their behaviour, it's fanaticism, ignorance and intolerance.

 

 

I agree with your overall view of the film. On the subject of Cyril's followers the movie may be more ambivalent than it seems at first sight. Intrigued by their strange-sounding name Parabolani, I resorted to Gibbon and I found that he too uses this term when describing the hold of Cyril on them as well as the nature of followers:"his commands were blindly obeyed by his numerous and fanatic parabolani, familiarised in their daily offce with scenes of death...." At first, having the film in mind, I thought that the parabolani were carrying executions of dissenters daily. Then when I looked in Wikipaedia I realized that they were a religious brotherhood devoted to the caring of the sick and the burial of the dead. My first superficial impression of the film was that all the dead people they carried in the carts to burn, were their own victims they wanted to dispose of. This is not true because even in the movie Cyril says before the Prefect when confronting the Jews that his Parabolani care for the sick and dead. It may be conceived as a stratagem but this was they were supposed to be doing and a scene in the beginning where Ammonious persuades Davus to offer bread to the (many) poor confirms that. Therefore the movie is more multilayered than a superficial observer may first consider.

[Ludovicus]

"The Dream of Scipio," Iain Pears, 2003, explores the sea change from Roman pagan past to Christianity in one of its subplots. Though far from Bishop Cyril's Egypt, the era of the end of paganism and the rise of Christianity in Gaul is an important setting of the novel.

Here's a thumbnail sketch of the book:

 

"In the 400s, as the Roman Empire settles into dust, landowner-turned-bishop Manlius attempts to record the ideas of his teacher, the Neo-Platonist Sophia. In the 1300s, this treatise ("The Dream of Scipio") is discovered by poet Olivier de Noyen, whose efforts to understand it lead him to a learned Jew and a secret love that forces upon him a momentous moral decision while the plague ravages the countryside. In the 1930s, Julien Barneuve encounters de Noyen and his references to the wondrous treatise, even as the Holocaust looms and Barneuve struggles desperately to protect the woman he loves a painter and a Jew. The writing here is not as felicitous as in Pears's magisterial An Instance of the Fingerpost, but the plotting is a marvel; the text moves smoothly among the three eras, drawing parallels that rarely seem forced. In the end, Pears asks good, cutting questions about the idea of civilization, showing that those who claim to preserve it are often its worst enemies. Most libraries will want this."

- Barbara Hoffert, "Library Journal"

 

No doubt Pears used the historical figure Hypatia as the model for his fictional Sophia. I found the book a very good read. I was fascinated by the scene of barbarians camped outside a Roman villa and the reactions of the owner. This is Gallia on the eve of becoming Francia.

Edited February 8, 2010 by Ludovicus

[Ludovicus]

I saw the movie last week. Why the title "Agora," if most of the action takes place away from the marketplace, "agora" in Greek? The title makes sense when you realize the open market place of ideas and religions of classical Alexandria no longer exists by the end of the film. The market place ends up in the control of one sect, the Christians, who by then have taken possession of the state (Eastern Empire). No more "agora." This will prove, in my opinion, to be detrimental to Christianity. A very thought provoking movie. Not a four star flick, but definitely worth the price of admission.

[Tribunicus Potestus]

I saw the movie last week. Why the title "Agora," if most of the action takes place away from the marketplace, "agora" in Greek? The title makes sense when you realize the open market place of ideas and religions of classical Alexandria no longer exists by the end of the film. The market place ends up in the control of one sect, the Christians, who by then have taken possession of the state (Eastern Empire). No more "agora." This will prove, in my opinion, to be detrimental to Christianity. A very thought provoking movie. Not a four star flick, but definitely worth the price of admission.

Agora is actually the "place of meeting" it would equate to the forum. It was pointed out to me when I was studying in Mexico that the Spaniards had used the same layout in every town in Mexico. It must have been passed on by the Romans. The layout is like this Government Palace on one side, Cathedral on another, and "los portales" the portals which are where the shops are. These things can all be seen in the Roman Forum. The markets, the temples, the Senate. To him it represented the three powers of the state.

 

In that sense the title is metaphorical. The powers-that-be allowed Hypatia no escape. There was no room for knowledge or beauty in the new order only the ruthless quest for power and wealth.

Edited October 2, 2011 by Tribunicus Potestus

[Viggen]

I would like to point to the wonderful review that Ursus did

http://www.unrv.com/book-review/agora-dvd.php

 

and the follow up discussion

http://www.unrv.com/forum/topic/14189-agora-2010-by-alejandro-amenabar/

 

cheers

viggen

[Tribunicus Potestus]

I would like to point to the wonderful review that Ursus did

http://www.unrv.com/book-review/agora-dvd.php

 

and the follow up discussion

http://www.unrv.com/forum/topic/14189-agora-2010-by-alejandro-amenabar/

 

cheers

viggen

Thank you for those links. I re-watched the making of Agora documentary last night and was struck by the Romaness of the crew. They came from so many different groups that it seemed right that they should do a movie about an Empire that was a melting pot of cultures.