Rowing Technique in triremes

[barca]

One of the biggest innovations of competitive rowing was the use of the sliding seat, which allows the rower to use his leg and hips in addition to his upper body thereby applying much more force to his stroke. It's a much simpler mechanical innovation than the steam engine, and it still relies on human muscle power.

 

There is some evidence that the ancients may have used some crude form of the sliding seat:

 

http://archive.comlab.ox.ac.uk/other/museu...iding-seat.html

 

Does anyone have additional information?

[Maladict]

Just because one rower on a relief has his knees raised a little? Colour me skeptical.

In any case, the sliding seat does not necessarily improve performance, only when using modern, light-weight boats and only on 'flat'water (lakes, canals).

That's why you generally won't see them in open water rowing craft. As you said, it was an invention born out of competitive rowing, sliding seats require much more energy to operate.

It really doesn't make a lot of sense for long distance, seagoing vessels.

[sylla]

One of the biggest innovations of competitive rowing was the use of the sliding seat, which allows the rower to use his leg and hips in addition to his upper body thereby applying much more force to his stroke. It's a much simpler mechanical innovation than the steam engine, and it still relies on human muscle power.

 

There is some evidence that the ancients may have used some crude form of the sliding seat:

 

http://archive.comlab.ox.ac.uk/other/museu...iding-seat.html

 

Does anyone have additional information?

Offending post deleted

[barca]

the sliding seat does not necessarily improve performance, only when using modern, light-weight boats and only on 'flat'water (lakes, canals)...

That's why you generally won't see them in open water rowing craft....

 

The triremes and galleys were used primarily in the relatively protected waters of the Mediterranean Sea.

It is well known that they were less effective in the Atlantic Ocean.

 

The mechanical advantage of the sliding seat is quite clear. It is estimated that about 70% of rowing power output comes from the lower body. A rower competing in a 2 kilometer race can maintain close to 500 watts of power. That's simply not possible when only using the upper body alone.

Edited December 1, 2009 by barca

[Maladict]

The triremes and galleys were used primarily in the relatively protected waters of the Mediterranean Sea.

It is well known that they were less effective in the Atlantic Ocean.

 

Well, I was talking about modern boats. You'd have a lot of trouble trying to cross the Med in a skiff.

 

The mechanical advantage of the sliding seat is quite clear. It is estimated that about 70% of rowing power output comes from the lower body. A rower competing in a 2 kilometer race can maintain close to 500 watts of power. That's simply not possible when only using the upper body alone.

 

True, I'm not denying the increase in power output. But it doesn't necessarily translate to higher speed. In racing boats yes, of course, but not so much when they get bulkier like the triremes.

The increase in speed would be much less and in fact a waste of those 500 watts of power. Slides are for racing, fixed seats for going the distance.

[sylla]

True, I'm not denying the increase in power output. But it doesn't necessarily translate to higher speed. In racing boats yes, of course, but not so much when they get bulkier like the triremes.

The increase in speed would be much less and in fact a waste of those 500 watts of power. Slides are for racing, fixed seats for going the distance.

Offending post deleted

[barca]

True, I'm not denying the increase in power output. But it doesn't necessarily translate to higher speed. In racing boats yes, of course, but not so much when they get bulkier like the triremes.

The increase in speed would be much less and in fact a waste of those 500 watts of power. Slides are for racing, fixed seats for going the distance.

It seems even discrete transitory increments on the force and speed of the trirremes might have been critical for some naval maneuvers, particularly ramming.

 

And for ramming the wattage could transiently go higher (1000W or more).

 

As far as long distance rowing, I don't know of any disadvantage to the sliding seats. There are rowing marathons with the C2 rowing machines where individuals remain on them for hours at a time:

 

http://www.concept2.com/us/motivation/awar...ons/default.asp

 

The main obstacle in my opinion would be an engineering issue. Each individual rower would require additional space to slide back and forth, so you would need more boat surface for each rower.

[Maladict]

As far as long distance rowing, I don't know of any disadvantage to the sliding seats. There are rowing marathons with the C2 rowing machines where individuals remain on them for hours at a time:

 

http://www.concept2.com/us/motivation/awar...ons/default.asp

 

The main obstacle in my opinion would be an engineering issue. Each individual rower would require additional space to slide back and forth, so you would need more boat surface for each rower.

 

I have very little experience rowing fixed seat, but the longest I've managed on slides (on the water, not the machine) is about 11 hrs straight.

I couldn't properly sit for two days after that. Makes you wonder how those rowers from antiquity managed to do it day after day.

You're definitely right about the engineering bit, and it also would be a costly and high-maintenance venture.