Finding Ancient coins with a metal detector

[guy]

Here's an intriguing thread on the internet by an amateur coin hunter in Germany. He used a metal detector to find his coins in a local forrest. I found it interesting that he found coins from different eras in one spot.

 

Earlier I had writen at UNRV:

 

David Vagi, in his book Coinage and History of the Roman Empire, states: "It is well documented both by literary and archaeological evidence that ancient coins circulated for centuries. An excellent example is the countermarking of older, worn coins in the east by the emperor Vespasian in the early AD 70s. The majority of these denarii were at least a century old at the time they were countermarked."

 

He adds, "The issuance of Imperial cistophori by the emperor Hadrian (117-138) is similarly convincing. Most (if not all) of the planchets used were older cistophori issued some 100 to 150 years earlier. We have no reason to doubt that these "host" coins (the coins that were overstruck) had been in circulation up until the time they were withdrawn for re-coining."

 

A possible analogy would be the modern use of Indian Head pennies in the US or Queen Victoria pennies in Great Britain[?].

 

I imagine that with the debasement of Roman silver coinage in the mid-200's, hoarding became more common. (When was the last time someone found a real silver coin in circulation; e.g., a Mercury Head dime or even a pre-1964 silver quarter?) Interestingly, Vagi asserts that the gold coinage typically did not suffer the same debasement as the silver coinage, but maintained their purity, even in the late Roman Empire. Gold coins, however, did suffer a reduction in size.

 

Here's the thread:

 

http://www.cointalk.com/t80765/#post749271

 

In the thread, the author writes:

 

"It was quite unspectacular really. I found these along a footpath in a forest where 10-12 years ago I had already found a Vitellius denarius. People go there for a walk on the weekends, ride their bikes, or walk their dogs, as the area is densily populated and the woods is surrounded by villages. I always thought it was incredible that this footpath had already existed 2000 years ago. On this day I decided to search more the shoulder of the footpath before going home as it was raining like hell. And lo and behold, I soon started getting signals one after the other. Not more than 5-10 cm deep I found these 5 - all within a few feet of each other. My guess is they could have been dropped by a passing rider. Of course I searched the entire area, but there were no more to be found. I wish every outing was like this!...this was really a stroke of luck, and the overall condition of the coins is good, if not exceptional."

 

 

 

 

guy also known as gaius

Edited May 14, 2012 by guy

[sylla]

... I imagine that with the debasement of Roman silver coinage in the mid-200's, hoarding became more common...

guy also known as gaius

Au contraire; as any other people (even nowadays), Romans hoarded money for its value, not for the lack of it.

 

Coin hoards were fundamentally emergency reserves for dangerous times; therefore, hoards' frequency is a reliable index of political instability, not of the coins' intrinsic value.

Edited November 29, 2009 by sylla

[Northern Neil]

Au contraire; as any other people (even nowadays), Romans hoarded money for its value, not for the lack of it.

Indeed - I suspect the hoarding was of earlier issues with more silver content. Forgive my extreme tangent, but are all U.S. pre-64 Dollars, quarters etc silver? In England it is all pre-47 stuff.

[guy]

Au contraire; as any other people (even nowadays), Romans hoarded money for its value, not for the lack of it.

Indeed - I suspect the hoarding was of earlier issues with more silver content. Forgive my extreme tangent, but are all U.S. pre-64 Dollars, quarters etc silver? In England it is all pre-47 stuff.

 

I got this from the internet. I believe it is correct:

 

1964 was the date on the last 90% silver coins. Silver coins were actually made up through the early part of 1966 but the 1964 date was used on all of those. 1965 was used on the clad coins that were made in that year. So any dime, half dollar or quarter with a date of 1964 is 90% silver.

The Kennedy Half Dollars produced from 1965 through 1969 were made with a 40% silver content. By 1971 half dollars had been changed to copper-nickel clad as well.

 

 

In 1986 the U.S. once again started making silver dollars (Silver American Eagles) which are almost solid silver and they are still being minted today. However, although they have a face value of $1 and a bank can only give you the $1 for it, they trade at the price of silver bullion, currently almost $20.

 

//

 

As far as hoarding goes, it probably increased during times of economic and social stress. But which coins were more likely to be hoarded and removed from circulation? Of course, it was those coins which had an intrinsic precious metal value and not the debased worthless coinage.

 

Coinage in the ancient world was used as much for its inherent value as its perceived value. Remember, a coin made in Rome would be used throughout a large empire and beyond. It is less likely that a debased coinage would be as readily accepted in commercial transactions in the distant reaches of the Empire.* The use of debased coinage would have exacerbated the already rampant inflation of the Third Century. This also explains the reluctance to use paper currency till more modern times. It was only relatively recently that precious metals weren't used in everyday coinage.

 

 

 

*The concern about ancient forgeries would explain the frequent bankers' marks or test cuts on ancient coins. These scratches into the coin were made to assess the purity of the metal and assure authenticity.

 

 

guy also known as gaius

[guy]

An expert on Ancient coins wrote this about the longevity of circulation of Ancient coins. The specific coin discussed in this example is the famous Marc Antony denarius from 31 BCE used in circulation for two centuries:

 

"Our final Imperatorial (and Republican) coin was issued in the period just before the Battle of Actium by the loser of this final fight for control of Rome. This final battle was to be at sea and Antony's sailors were paid in these coins showing a warship and military standards. Antony was short on resources to pay such huge sums so he added copper to the silver used for these coins. The alloy was, therefore, debased. After the battle (and Antony) had been lost, these coins remained in circulation. The fact that they were not good silver caused them to remain in circulation until the debasement of the regular Roman coinage reached the same level and made them desirable to be buried in hoards. Legionary denarii of Antony are common in hoards deposited over 200 years after their issue. Many of these coins are worn slick."

 

This is taken from Doug Smith's excellent article on the web:

 

http://dougsmith.ancients.info/voc2.html

 

 

guy also known as gaius

Edited November 30, 2009 by guy

[sylla]

"... The fact that they were not good silver caused them to remain in circulation until the debasement of the regular Roman coinage reached the same level and made them desirable to be buried in hoards... deposited over 200 years after their issue..."

... from Doug Smith's excellent article...

="Bad money drives out good" (under legal tender laws) = Gresham's law.

 

Or in Theognis of Megara's words: "Nor will anyone change the good that is there to something worse".

Edited November 30, 2009 by sylla

[Melvadius]

"... The fact that they were not good silver caused them to remain in circulation until the debasement of the regular Roman coinage reached the same level and made them desirable to be buried in hoards... deposited over 200 years after their issue..."

... from Doug Smith's excellent article...

="Bad money drives out good" (under legal tender laws) = Gresham's law.

 

Or in Theognis of Megara's words: "Nor will anyone change the good that is there to something worse".

 

The

[sylla]

The research Sylla has pointed to relates to non-recovery of hoards during periods of political instability, with the research indicating significant increases in the non-recovery rates.

- You can only find hoards that have not been recovered; recovered hoards are not available for being studied, so the "non-recovery rates" are not measurable.

 

- The pointed research relates to hoards from periods of either political stability or instability; the research confirmed the hypothesis that the hoard's incidence correlates with periods of political instability.

[Melvadius]

The research Sylla has pointed to relates to non-recovery of hoards during periods of political instability, with the research indicating significant increases in the non-recovery rates.

- You can only find hoards that have not been recovered; recovered hoards are not available for being studied, so the "non-recovery rates" are not measurable.

 

- The pointed research relates to hoards from periods of either political stability or instability; the research confirmed the hypothesis that the hoard's incidence correlates with periods of political instability.

 

I think Sylla is probably right in thinking we all may have got lost somewhere in that sentence, what I meant to indicate was that the 'research Sylla has pointed to relates to an apparent increase in the incidence non-recovered hoards during periods of political instability.'

 

It is implicit [from what we have said] that hoarding was a normal practice in antiquity. Even if we cannot determine precisely how many hoards would have been in operation at any one time - the research provides 'proof' that statistically many fewer hoards have been found from periods of relative stability compared to periods of apparent instability.

Edited December 7, 2009 by Melvadius

[guy]

The

Edited May 14, 2012 by guy