Tourism in Venice is Reaching Meltdown

[caesar novus]

Here's a terrific video of John Julius Norwich, famed historian, discussing how Venice is rapidly becoming a rich man's Disneyland.

I first visited umpteen years ago, and it was equally overcrowded to the point you had to exhale to squeeze forward. Instead of the cruise passenger daytrippers, it was the railpass backpackers who just stopped for the day and used nighttrains as hotels coming and going. And like Lord N. said it is only selectively crowded - only S. Marco Square and the route to Rialto bridge and the dual routes from there to the train station on either side of the canal. That can be literally gridlocked, with police watching for walkers being crushed, and even the canal boat alternative can be overcrowded and overpriced (partly because it is widely ridden by freeloaders, as you can see by traveler forums encouraging ticket dodging).

 

If you want a pleasant way of getting between east and west, walk the route from the bus terminal (Pz Roma, S of train station) to the Academia bridge and onward. This is what all the Italian workers and university attendees seem to take during "rush hours", and what an elegant well dressed parade it is... thru some of the most serendipitous parts of Venice.

 

For nice places to "hang out", go north, east, or south of the aforementioned spine of tourist migration. BTW they are justifiably condemned to that nightmare spine because they didn't judge Venice worth the cost of a good, tablecloth sized map of Venice, and thus when they get lost they only have the signs directing them to the human freeways between train station / rialto bridge / pigeon poop square (oh have they started enforcing the no feeding rule so I can think of it as S. Marco again?). If you can stand it, please hang out to the northwest in Cannaregio. This is an awful area of bland architecture much gushed over by tourist articles, and if happy there you won't be in the way of tourists with taste.

 

Otherwise, hang out to the south in Dosoduro (all these spellings probably wrong, but google should guess right anyway), to the northeast in Castello, or the "fishtail" in the east where Napoleon cleared out big areas for boulevards and parks (and the amazing Naval museum including coverage of Roman emperor pleasure yachts). The supercute island of Burano is free on your ferry daypass, but don't waste time on similarly sounding bland Murano.

 

One problem that I offer no solution for is the difficulty of finding the usual high standards of Italian food. Someone commented on the apparent numbers of residents, but I think you will find many are short time apartment renters speaking French or German. There isn't a critical mass of residents that keep at least the lower price eateries honest, and that whole dimension of Italian serendipity falls pretty flat there.

 

Funny how Venice becomes a target for the climate-neurotics when it is just about to be protected better than most coastal cities with the multi billion tide surge protector. Being at the end of a funnel formed by the Adriatic, it is most susceptible to temporary combinations of tide and wind surge (pressure systems actually tilt the seas) which rose to insane levels in 1966, but even higher levels should soon be safe. The lowest levels of many Venetian palaces have already been abandoned due to waterlogging even before the so-called warming period, just as the ancient ports of Rome and Pisa have receded from the seashore and dried out. Life has cycles that come and go - enjoy what they give and don't pointlessly fret if they take away.

[sylla]

Funny how Venice becomes a target for the climate-neurotics when it is just about to be protected better than most coastal cities with the multi billion tide surge protector.

A paradoxical statement, as such protector is exactly the product of the same so-called "neurosis".

The lowest levels of many Venetian palaces have already been abandoned due to waterlogging even before the so-called warming period,

Do you mean across the Little Ice Age? Can you quote your source(s)?

Life has cycles that come and go - enjoy what they give and don't pointlessly fret if they take away.

... especially if any alternative might affect our pockets in the short term, Gods forbid!

[Klingan]

The lowest levels of many Venetian palaces have already been abandoned due to waterlogging even before the so-called warming period,

Do you mean across the Little Ice Age? Can you quote your source(s)?

 

I have also seen examples of this kind of behavior in Venice, but I believe that was cased by the buildings sinking, not the water level rising?

[sylla]

I have also seen examples of this kind of behavior in Venice, but I believe that was cased by the buildings sinking, not the water level rising?

I understand both mechanisms are operative in Venice and other places of the north Adriatic; one of them does not exclude the other. Edited November 30, 2009 by sylla

[Melvadius]

I have also seen examples of this kind of behavior in Venice, but I believe that was cased by the buildings sinking, not the water level rising?

I understand both mechanisms are operative in Venice and other places of the north Adriatic; one of them does not exclude the other.

 

In this view Sylla is correct as can be seen from this article on the Nova site:

 

Sinking city of Venice

 

The operative section is in the second section 'a city awash' which states:

 

Many scientists believe that global warming driven by the burning of fossil fuels is primarily responsible for the rise in global sea level, which at Venice has resulted in higher and more frequent instances of acqua alta. To make matters worse, Venice has been sinking over the centuries, due to the natural settling of lagoon sediments and the indiscriminate pumping of freshwater from a deep aquifer beneath the city.

 

Sixteen hundred years ago, around the time of Venice's founding, the Adriatic's standard sea level was almost six feet below what it is today. For a millennium and a half, Venetians were able to cope with the problems associated with living in a water-dominated environment. As late as 1900, for example, water at extreme high tide covered St. Mark's Square only seven times a year.

 

As I have already indicated, that it will probably take centuries or millenia for Venice to totally submerge but if it does the rest of the world will probably have other concerns associated with rising sea levels given how large a percentage of both arable and heavily populated land surface already lies within a few meters of high tide levels.

Edited November 30, 2009 by Melvadius

[sylla]

As I have already indicated, that it will probably take centuries or millenia for Venice to totally submerge but if it does the rest of the world will probably have other concerns associated with rising sea levels given how large a percentage of both arable and heavily populated land surface already lies within a few meters of high tide levels.

Ergo, Venice is only one among myriad reasons for deterring anthropogenic global warming.

 

Given total inaction, progressive sea rising and allied global ecological consequences are an absolute certainty; the difference of "optimistic" vs. "pessimistic" is just the time required.

[Melvadius]

Given total inaction, progressive sea rising and allied global ecological consequences are an absolute certainty; the difference of "optimistic" vs. "pessimistic" is just the time required.

 

There are some arguments that despite the mitigation work, which has already started in some countries (e.g. the UK and EU targets to reduce greenhouse gas emissions), the effects of climate change are already upon us which is why adaptation measures also need to be considered. It is highly likely to get worse before it gets better and issuing every tourist to Venice with water wings or a wet suit and breathing apparatus is unlikely to be greeted favourably.

[Maladict]

I've lived in Venice for a while, and it is in fact quite alive. It takes some time to notice, and a lot more time to get accepted, but it is all there.

The tourists can be annoying but they quickly become background noise. As I understood the sinking was primarily caused by the heavy industry in Marghera drawing water from underneath the city. A rising sea level, of course, doesn't help.

[Melvadius]

I've lived in Venice for a while, and it is in fact quite alive. It takes some time to notice, and a lot more time to get accepted, but it is all there.

The tourists can be annoying but they quickly become background noise. As I understood the sinking was primarily caused by the heavy industry in Marghera drawing water from underneath the city. A rising sea level, of course, doesn't help.

 

Does the Italian government still run the financial incentives for young families to move back into Venice which was running a few years back?

[Maladict]

Does the Italian government still run the financial incentives for young families to move back into Venice which was running a few years back?

 

I'm not familiar with that. I have heard of subsidies given to non-tourism based companies moving to the historical centre.

Apparently it has had moderate succes in attracting small businesses in the IT sector.

[JGolomb]

I've lived in Venice for a while, and it is in fact quite alive. It takes some time to notice, and a lot more time to get accepted, but it is all there.

The tourists can be annoying but they quickly become background noise. As I understood the sinking was primarily caused by the heavy industry in Marghera drawing water from underneath the city. A rising sea level, of course, doesn't help.

Mal - Do you work in Venice itself or do you commute to the mainland? I'm curious about the patterns of one's existence in such a unique place.

[Maladict]

I've lived in Venice for a while, and it is in fact quite alive. It takes some time to notice, and a lot more time to get accepted, but it is all there.

The tourists can be annoying but they quickly become background noise. As I understood the sinking was primarily caused by the heavy industry in Marghera drawing water from underneath the city. A rising sea level, of course, doesn't help.

Mal - Do you work in Venice itself or do you commute to the mainland? I'm curious about the patterns of one's existence in such a unique place.

 

I only lived there for a year or so, quite a while ago. I did not have to commute to the mainland, only a short boat ride or walk to wherever I needed to be.

It was terribly strange leaving the city after being holed up there for a month or so without seeing a single car and then visiting a 'normal city'. You just wanted to flee back to the quiet, insular life.

That said, Venice can be annoying. It takes a long time to get anywhere, and there can be an almost southern Italian unwillingness to get anything done.

Small price to pay for living in the most beautiful city in the world, though.

[caesar novus]

I'm curious about the patterns of one's existence in such a unique place.

"The world of Venice" By Jan/Jim Morris is the classic memoir of an adoring expat resident of Venice, although it meanders a bit much: http://books.google.com/books?id=HtE13QFND...;q=&f=false

 

 

Sinking city of Venice

 

The operative section is in the second section 'a city awash' which states:

 

Many scientists believe that global warming driven by the burning of fossil fuels is primarily responsible for the rise in global sea level, which at Venice has resulted in higher and more frequent instances of acqua alta. To make matters worse, Venice has been sinking over the centuries, due to the natural settling of lagoon sediments and the indiscriminate pumping of freshwater from a deep aquifer beneath the city.

 

Sixteen hundred years ago, around the time of Venice's founding, the Adriatic's standard sea level was almost six feet below what it is today. For a millennium and a half, Venetians were able to cope with the problems associated with living in a water-dominated environment. As late as 1900, for example, water at extreme high tide covered St. Mark's Square only seven times a year.

Poppycock; I resent the frequent fund collecting I did for that public radio and TV broadcasting, often submitting paperwork for double matching grants from corporations. They spew a constant barrage of selective reporting of supposed victim situations... that all imply the need for gov't social engineering (which is what they want in the first place). Every imposed solution ends up with worse side effects than the original problem, like the dysfuctional ethanol fuel fiasco that pillages foodstocks and land to produce no more energy than is input.

 

Here is recent, non changing sealevel history of nearby Split during the heart of CO2 buildup period:

Here is the real problem, where atmospheric conditions drive sea levels of Venice (in the upper left) up to a meter higher than max tide ( http://www.hhi.hr/mijene/mijene_en/uspori_e.htm )

Here is the responsible, multifacited solution for the immediate threat to Venice now being implemented by the few adults not under the mystical spell of climate-neurosis. Note it was back in 1966 when 2 meter floods occured, and this will protect from higher ones... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOSE_Project#Context

 

Here is an example of the gross mis appropriation of resources that will be applied with almost no impact for the cult religion of climatology, at the expense of numerous solvable real problems...

[sylla]

Here is an example of the gross mis appropriation of resources that will be applied with almost no impact for the cult religion of climatology, at the expense of numerous solvable real problems...

Actually here is a much better exposition from Mr. Lomborg's sensible ideas.

 

The general message is full of common sense and Mr. Lomborg actually gives plenty of examples on the rational selection of alternatives for the optimal use of resources.

 

But specifically regarding his main thesis on Global Climate Change, he simply asked the right question to the wrong people.

Contrary to his opening statement, economists are not experts on every possible subject just because they dispose of the cash; e.g. I seriously doubt even Mr. Lomborg would use an economist instead of a pediatrician for any sick child of his family...

 

In plain economic terms, any objective estimation of the "value" of the perennial survival of the Homo sapiens expressed in dollars (or any other currency) would simply tend to infinite; it would be like asking how much money should the Kennedy administration have spent on preventing nuclear war at the Cuban missile crisis.

 

Please note that contrary to most opponents of taking action on Global Warming here at neverending thread"]UNRV[/url], Mr. Lomborg is not a denier; he perfectly accepts the overwhelming evidence on this ongoing menace.

He does not explain the reports on such evidence from any absurd global conspiracy theory.

From an ideological standpoint, both positions are absolutely contradictory.

 

Strictly speaking, regarding Global Climate Change Mr. Lomborg is just a nihilist ; as nothing can be done (in his best opinion), we should just accept the inevitable...

 

The only thing these opposite positions have in common is that both might be used as rationalizating excuses by stingy contributors worldwide; period.

Edited November 30, 2009 by sylla

[Ludovicus]

Tourism in Venice is Reaching Meltdown

 

Here's a terrific video of John Julius Norwich, famed historian, discussing how Venice is rapidly becoming a rich man's Disneyland. He touches on some other things as well, and the video includes some nice Venetian photography.

 

Is Venice doomed to become nothing more than a shell of glories past? Lord Norwich is skeptical: "In another 20 or 30 years it will actually be the thinking man's Disneyland, a millionaire's playground," he says. "There won't be any people there: it will just be a museum city." Rising tides may yet claim Venice, but unless she gets help soon the city as we know her will have long since disappeared.

 

For me, Venice without resident Venetians sounds like a very sorry place. I'm sure who ever would buy the islands would hire ex-Venetians to populate the area during the day. It would a thing embalmed.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Ludovicus