Klingan Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Some of you may recall that I started a blog about 6 months ago while I was in Rome. My intention back then was to keep it alive until I came home and then take it down - copyright wasn't an issue at that stage. I however decided to keep it up after my return as I enjoyed working with it. Still, copyright wasn't a big issue as I had rather few visitors and most of then were personal friends. And I frankly enough assumed that no museum would get offended by not being mentioned, even though the thought struck me. Then again, mentioning a museum in every post would certainly draw unwanted attention to me. The nature of the problem has changed during the last 2 months, my closer friends now constitute a small group of the visitors and I frankly enough expect this trend to continue. I reckon that I should mention who owns the items (as most sites and museums are very protective when it come to photos), yet that might just lead the the attention I don't want. So the problem is basically: Would it be wise to give a reference to the museum/site that owns an item or would it simply make it worse? What are the pros/cons? Klingan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephele Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 I thought that if you took the picture yourself, then the copyright was yours. That's provided the museum permitted photo-taking and you didn't take any pics on the sly. Am I missing something here? I would mention the museum, anyway, for those who might be interested in knowing where to go see the artifact represented in your photo. -- Nephele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmo Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 I thought that if you took the picture yourself, then the copyright was yours. Indeed. The photos are yours and you are under no obligation to mention the place where was taken or the owner of the objects in the photos. Per a contrario imagine that you have a picture taken in a parking lot and you would have the obligation to mention all the car owners who had cars there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klingan Posted October 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 I thought that if you took the picture yourself, then the copyright was yours. That's provided the museum permitted photo-taking and you didn't take any pics on the sly. Am I missing something here? I would mention the museum, anyway, for those who might be interested in knowing where to go see the artifact represented in your photo. -- Nephele I have indeed taken all of the pictures myself. The museums are however very touchy when it comes to photos. Most Italian museums have a policy dictating that no photos are allowed at all (even if the Italian law makes it clear that it is allowed). The problem also touches publication and if blogging is publishing. I've never heard of one single museum that would allow you to publish a picture (in a book/official page and in theory even in lecture powerpoints) without their expressed permission. One horrible example is Pompeii, where the authorities demand 50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephele Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 I thought that if you took the picture yourself, then the copyright was yours. That's provided the museum permitted photo-taking and you didn't take any pics on the sly. Am I missing something here? I would mention the museum, anyway, for those who might be interested in knowing where to go see the artifact represented in your photo. -- Nephele I have indeed taken all of the pictures myself. The museums are however very touchy when it comes to photos. Most Italian museums have a policy dictating that no photos are allowed at all (even if the Italian law makes it clear that it is allowed). The problem also touches publication and if blogging is publishing. I've never heard of one single museum that would allow you to publish a picture (in a book/official page and in theory even in lecture powerpoints) without their expressed permission. One horrible example is Pompeii, where the authorities demand 50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Paulinus Maximus Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 I don't really have any clue on the copyright laws what so ever so on that front I can't help but I would just like to say that I've been following your blog from the start and have enjoyed the pictures and the little explanation that goes with each one, so whatever the case with the copyright thing, if you have to give the museums credit then do so but just keep on blogging!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klingan Posted October 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Hey thanks GMP! I only hope that the blog won't drag me into trouble sooner or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylla Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) Sub idem fere tempus et ab Attalo rege et Rhodiis legati uenerunt nuntiantes Asiae quoque ciuitates sollicitari. his legationibus responsum est curae eam rem senatui fore; consultatio de Macedonico bello integra ad consules, qui tunc in prouinciis erant, reiecta est. interim ad Ptolomaeum Aegypti regem legati tres missi, C. Claudius Nero M. Aemilius Lepidus P. Sempronius Tuditanus, ut nuntiarent uictum Hannibalem Poenosque et gratias agerent regi quod in rebus dubiis, cum finitimi etiam socii Romanos desererent, in fide mansisset, et peterent ut, si coacti iniuriis bellum aduersus Philippum suscepissent, pristinum animum erga populum Romanum conseruaret. Eodem fere tempore P. Aelius consul in Gallia, cum audisset a Boiis ante suum aduentum incursiones in agros sociorum factas, duabus legionibus subitariis tumultus eius causa scriptis additisque ad eas quattuor cohortibus de exercitu suo, C. Ampium praefectum socium hac tumultuaria manu per Umbriam qua tribum Sapiniam uocant agrum Boiorum inuadere iussit; ipse eodem aperto itinere per montes duxit. Ampius ingressus hostium fines primo populationes satis prospere ac tuto fecit. delecto deinde ad castrum Mutilum satis idoneo loco ad demetenda frumenta Edited January 1, 2010 by sylla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maty Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 I'm also not sure what the museums can actually do about it. For a start, many of their exhibits exist as pictures that are in the public domain, so the museum would have to prove that you took the picture. Also, even if they can put you in the museum as the photographer, they might be able to get you for breaking the T&Cs but they can't claim copyright on the pics. Only occasionally have I been stopped photographing in Italian museums - generally, as long as one does not use flash they seem pretty cool with it. One French place wanted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klingan Posted October 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 This British Link might give you an idea of the oddities of copyright law (including pictures) for the museums in the UK. Beware: I'm as far from being a legal expert as it can get by any standard, so anything I state within this post from this phrase onwards might perfectly be an absurdity. As far as I know, copyright becomes an issue essentially for commercial use (ie, when money is involved); non-commercial copyright infringement rarely gets to the courts (but that is certainly always a possibility). Copyright is intellectual property; a picture would be considered as a property of the photographer as long as it is an "original work"; obviously, copyrighted works from third parties included in any picture are still private property, and depending on the focus on such works, that picture might be considered as an infringement of the original copyright. In fact, it would be a typical example of unauthorized reproduction. Legal details can be extremely tricky; for example, for the British law, photographs of human faces taken before 1989 might be viewed as portraits, so the copyright would belong to the person commissioning the photograph; however, if they were taken after that year, the copyright would then belong to the photographer. Surely a great deal of the museums' material is in the public domain; that can and should be verified as required. Some museums probably grant some limited reproduction rights after the payment of the required fee, but that must be explicitly verified. In addition to the copyright issues, there's always the possibility that any museum might be interested in verifying that their own internal requirements for taking pictures of their material were rightly fulfilled. If you ever seriously think about the commercial use of your virtual gallery, I would strongly suggest the advice of both legal experts and web designers; please remember that the law works in both directions and for all parties. For non-commercial use some caution and common sense should in all likelihood be enough, as naturally professional advice is regularly quite expensive. Please note that I was not able to properly answer your original question ("Would it be wise to give a reference to the museum/site that owns an item or would it simply make it worse?"); IMHO, I don't think it would make any real difference from a legal standpoint. You make a good point with the non-commercial part. I have no intention to make money out of it. I'm also not sure what the museums can actually do about it. For a start, many of their exhibits exist as pictures that are in the public domain, so the museum would have to prove that you took the picture. Also, even if they can put you in the museum as the photographer, they might be able to get you for breaking the T&Cs but they can't claim copyright on the pics. Only occasionally have I been stopped photographing in Italian museums - generally, as long as one does not use flash they seem pretty cool with it. One French place wanted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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