The Flavian Amphitheater: Actual Name?

[Klingan]

That the Colosseum was called The Flavian Amphitheater. I have never seen it referred to anything but "Amphiteatrum" in ancient sources.

[sylla]

That the Colosseum was called The Flavian Amphitheater. I have never seen it referred to anything but "Amphiteatrum" in ancient sources.

Or like calling Augustus' family "the Julio-Claudian dynasty"; technical terms tend to be used by the historians, not the historic people.

Edited September 24, 2009 by sylla

[Klingan]

That the Colosseum was called The Flavian Amphitheater. I have never seen it referred to anything but "Amphiteatrum" in ancient sources.

Or like calling Augustus' family "the Julio-Claudian dynasty"; technical terms tend to be used by the historians, not the historic people.

 

The difference is that the Flavian Amphitheater is used as if it was an ancient term. It is even directly stated that it is, in a book from my first course in ancient history.

[sylla]

That the Colosseum was called The Flavian Amphitheater. I have never seen it referred to anything but "Amphiteatrum" in ancient sources.

Or like calling Augustus' family "the Julio-Claudian dynasty"; technical terms tend to be used by the historians, not the historic people.

 

The difference is that the Flavian Amphitheater is used as if it was an ancient term. It is even directly stated that it is, in a book from my first course in ancient history.

Point taken.

It seems no proper name was used for this building, possibly because it was essentially the only amphitheater of Rome (leaving aside the relatively little Amphiteatrum Castrense).

Cassius Dio actually called it the "hunting theatre" (in Greek, of course).

Edited September 24, 2009 by sylla

[Klingan]

Point taken.

It seems no proper name was used for this building, possibly because it was essentially the only amphitheater of Rome (leaving aside the relatively little Amphiteatrum Castrense).

Cassius Dio actually called it the "hunting theatre" (in Greek, of course).

Greek terminology is a little different, but I reckon that hunting theater is the normal way to translate amphitheater?

 

 

Anyway do you know any sources on what Amphitheatrum Statilii Tauri was called before it was destroyed? (Suetonius only mention it in the context of it's builder) I am curious, was it also referred to simply as amphiteatrum when it was the only one in Rome. We should perhaps consider the possibility that most amphitheaters was referred to that name, as there would be no need to be more specific normally.

 

And where does the term The Flavian Amphitheater come from? (It might be time for a split thread)

[sylla]

Greek terminology is a little different, but I reckon that hunting theater is the normal way to translate amphitheater?

Amphitheater is already a Greek word (Αμφιθέατρο = Amphitheatron), and it was regularly used for these buildings, eg. by Josephus.

Dio almost always used simply "Theatron" for our Colosseum.

Latin authors also tended to indistinctly use either theatrum or amphiteatrum, eg. Pliny Major.

As far as I can tell, "hunting theatre" (Kynegeticon Theatron) was used only once by Dio (66:21:2), and even there in a most metaphorical way, to describe the crater of the Vesubius.

Anyway do you know any sources on what Amphitheatrum Statilii Tauri was called before it was destroyed? ... I am curious, was it also referred to simply as amphiteatrum when it was the only one in Rome. We should perhaps consider the possibility that most amphitheaters was referred to that name, as there would be no need to be more specific normally.

That was indeed the case, for example Augustus in his Res Gestae; as usual, the Romans seem to have been rather pragmatic, naming things only when they had no other choice.

(Suetonius only mention it in the context of it's builder)

Not exactly; Suetonius mentioned this amphitheater more than once, certainly in the context of its builder within his Divus Augustus, but not so in other biographies; at least in his Caius (aka Caligula 18:1), this building was also called amphitheatro Tauri as one of the places for his gladiatorial games.

And where does the term The Flavian Amphitheater come from?

This denomination was used by historians at least since Gibbon in the late XVIII century; the latter however preferred to more properly call it the "amphiteatrum of Titus"; my guess is that it was indeed used as a technical term since the very beginning. Edited September 25, 2009 by sylla

[Rompe]

I found it very intresting that when I was in Rome this past time, Where I was staying, I did not know the area. I had to ask a resident how I get to the Colosseum from where I was staying. They did not know it by the Colosseum, Flavian Ampetheater or any other way I could phrase it. Only when I showed them the "visitors map" that I get whenever I am there and I showed them the place on the map where it shows it, did they know what it was. I tried "Arena" and whatever other name I could think of, but still they were highly confused.

 

Is there another term that the Italians use in todays day and age that I do not know of to call the Flavian Ampetheater by?

[Ludovicus]

I found it very intresting that when I was in Rome this past time, Where I was staying, I did not know the area. I had to ask a resident how I get to the Colosseum from where I was staying. They did not know it by the Colosseum, Flavian Ampetheater or any other way I could phrase it. Only when I showed them the "visitors map" that I get whenever I am there and I showed them the place on the map where it shows it, did they know what it was. I tried "Arena" and whatever other name I could think of, but still they were highly confused.

 

Is there another term that the Italians use in todays day and age that I do not know of to call the Flavian Ampetheater by?

 

Did you try saying the name in Italian, Colosseo?

[Rompe]

I found it very intresting that when I was in Rome this past time, Where I was staying, I did not know the area. I had to ask a resident how I get to the Colosseum from where I was staying. They did not know it by the Colosseum, Flavian Ampetheater or any other way I could phrase it. Only when I showed them the "visitors map" that I get whenever I am there and I showed them the place on the map where it shows it, did they know what it was. I tried "Arena" and whatever other name I could think of, but still they were highly confused.

 

Is there another term that the Italians use in todays day and age that I do not know of to call the Flavian Ampetheater by?

 

Did you try saying the name in Italian, Colosseo?

 

Yes, that I did. It was the 2nd way I tried pronouncing it to the person I was asking. Maybe it was due to my accent (Deutsch) that was throwing them off? I have been told that my Italian can sound odd due to my accent that I speak with.

[Medusa]

Arena always refers to the place where the action takes place. The word actually meaning sand, sandy place.

 

The building or the seating construction (which was during the Republic temporarily) was called in that time spectacula or when referring to Caesar's munus in 46 BC 'hunting theater'. The word spectacula is also find on the dedicatory inscription of the stone amphitheater of Pompeii. In the Imperial period it became common to call the thing amphitheatrum derived from Greek but the building type being something unique Roman.

 

For those who want to know more about this topic I could recommend the following books:

 

Katherine E. Welch "The Roman Amphitheatre - From Its Origins to the Colosseum" Cambridge University Press (New York, 2007)

David L. Bomgardner "The Story of the Roman Amphitheatre" Routledge (London, 2002)

[sylla]

... The building or the seating construction (which was during the Republic temporarily) was called ... when referring to Caesar's munus in 46 BC 'hunting theater'.

Do you know which Classical author made that specific quotation on Caesar's structure?

Thanks in advance.

Edited October 4, 2009 by sylla

[Klingan]

... The building or the seating construction (which was during the Republic temporarily) was called ... when referring to Caesar's munus in 46 BC 'hunting theater'.

Do you know which Classical author made that specific quotation on Caesar's structure?

Thanks in advance.

 

I feel an urge to bump this. I would also like to take a look at the original source.

[Ingsoc]

Martialis in de Spectaculis first and second poems refer to it as the Amphitheatrum Caesareum (original Latin and the English translation).

[sylla]

Martialis in de Spectaculis first and second poems refer to it as the Amphitheatrum Caesareum (original Latin and the English translation).

Those verses actually referred to the inauguration of the Colosseum; the alluded Caesar was Titus.

Typically, that denomination was not a formal proper name, but just an unspecific poetic possessive phrase using a regular genitive declension (-reum); ie. the

Edited October 12, 2009 by sylla

[Medusa]

I recently read about Caesar's "hunting theater" in Katherine Welch's book "The Roman Amphitheatre". She lists the following sources for this:

 

Suetonius, Iul. 37

Dio Cassius, 43.22-3

Plinius Historia Naturalis 19.23 (mentions only vera stretched over the Forum Romanum while Caesar's hosted gladiatorial games in 46 BC, presumably in the "hunting theater" erected for this event)