Romans in Norway?

[Muncus]

All over Norway there are in total prox 400 forts built some 2000 to 1500 years ago, and nobody seem to have a clue on what culture actually made those systems - networks - of protection and defence, at the very same time as the iron culture really took off in the highlands in this beautiful land of Vikings. In a speech and historical review hosted at the National Cultural Center of Stiklestad in September 2009, a Norwegian historian, Roy Vega, pointed to a possible impulse from the Romans, with regard to the logistics of defence, protection, transportation and commerce in times where tons of iron were brought out from the Norwegian mountains to the Romans. - I have doubts that the Romans, the most relevant consumers of iron, let this values float into their empire for many hundred years to come, without any protection of this important, strategical and comprehensive imput from the high north. We have indeed to look into this stuff, since even a lite archaeological research might bring very important history to the lime light, said Vega. - Not to mention what could appear in continental archives if we really keep focus in this directions.

 

One of the most central towns in the old Viking land, Levanger, will selebrate 1000 years anniversary in 2011, and since this town has a great fort dated by C14-methodes more than 2000 years way back in history, Roy Vega hopes that there will be resources to literally dig up the "Roman question" with regard both to the iron and the forts.

 

Some others that may have some ideas about an eventual Roman input and impulse behind the iron logistics of Norway, and the forts built in the same periode of time?

[Centurion-Macro]

It seems like Roman kind of defense. They used to build rings of forts like that to protect their territory.

But I have never heard of anything else Roman being found in Norway, so it seems unlikely.

[Muncus]

It seems like Roman kind of defense. They used to build rings of forts like that to protect their territory.

But I have never heard of anything else Roman being found in Norway, so it seems unlikely.

 

Well, from my herritage in that country I can tell there are lots of archaelogical, Roman findings even in mid Norway (heartland of the Vikings), very close to the pritty great fort which is in focus due to the 1000 year anniversary in the old town of Levanger. The connection to Romans is real, but the pattern in it as such seem still foggy to this day.

[caesar novus]

Wasn't there a Roman who visited Norway and left one of the only written descriptions of it pre Viking, maybe around 400ad? I forget what his purpose was, but don't think it was very clear anyway.

 

I seem to recall this from a "teaching company" audio course on the Vikings, but it is hard to access the quote buried somewhere on a dozen or so CDs.

[Muncus]

Wasn't there a Roman who visited Norway and left one of the only written descriptions of it pre Viking, maybe around 400ad? I forget what his purpose was, but don't think it was very clear anyway.

 

I seem to recall this from a "teaching company" audio course on the Vikings, but it is hard to access the quote buried somewhere on a dozen or so CDs.

 

The entire viking design is based on the Roman style; all from the costumes to the two-edged sword. Formally, you learn that the vikings took off 'round year 800. In practical terms, these fighting phenomenon match the Roman cult and goes way back to the Celtic periode. See the old Italian/Roman sources in which the Celts are described.

 

Wow, info on CD -wish you could dig that up!

[caesar novus]

I guess I'm thinking of the 4th century bc Greek visitor to Norway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pytheas#Discovery_of_Thule .

 

I haven't replayed the cd's yet, but flipped thru course notes booklet. Lecture 4 is on Vikings & Romans, and you can see in the 2nd paragraph of http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/CourseDescLong2.aspx?cid=3910 that the author bases some of his Viking history on "Roman reports". However many of these are about Germany, then he seems to make inferences about Danes, etc.

 

The chapter 4 course notes end with a question that I don't think he answered: "What was the impact of imperial Rome in shaping society in Scandinavia? How decisive was contact with Rome in changing political and military institutions? How important was trade for the prosperity of Scandinavia?"

 

Other Italio-Norse contacts: On the 5th floor of the Venice Naval Museum there is a big map showing routes of several Viking incursions to Italy! It seems so out of the way, maybe they knew of the former Roman empire from earlier contacts? In my own history I have over 600 years documentation of only Norwegian ancestors, but a DNA test suggested a an earlier Sardinian female (that in the mitochondrial dna; the male side being the viking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I1_%28Y-DNA%29 )

[longshotgene]

This message got me wondering. Has any one put into the practice that Rome could have fallen due to a Revolution of some sort? Think about it. Armies spread all over the place. Heartland unprotected. Easily opened to battle from within.

[sylla]

All over Norway there are in total prox 400 forts built some 2000 to 1500 years ago, and nobody seem to have a clue on what culture actually made those systems - networks - of protection and defence, at the very same time as the iron culture really took off in the highlands in this beautiful land of Vikings. In a speech and historical review hosted at the National Cultural Center of Stiklestad in September 2009, a Norwegian historian, Roy Vega, pointed to a possible impulse from the Romans, with regard to the logistics of defence, protection, transportation and commerce in times where tons of iron were brought out from the Norwegian mountains to the Romans. - I have doubts that the Romans, the most relevant consumers of iron, let this values float into their empire for many hundred years to come, without any protection of this important, strategical and comprehensive imput from the high north. We have indeed to look into this stuff, since even a lite archaeological research might bring very important history to the lime light, said Vega. - Not to mention what could appear in continental archives if we really keep focus in this directions.

 

One of the most central towns in the old Viking land, Levanger, will selebrate 1000 years anniversary in 2011, and since this town has a great fort dated by C14-methodes more than 2000 years way back in history, Roy Vega hopes that there will be resources to literally dig up the "Roman question" with regard both to the iron and the forts.

 

Some others that may have some ideas about an eventual Roman input and impulse behind the iron logistics of Norway, and the forts built in the same periode of time?

Some time ago there was some speculation about the potential presence of the Romans in Denmark, fundamentally based on a controversial Plinian quote (Naturalis Historia 4:27) and the finding of some coins.

 

It seems the consensus favored a more conservative explanation for such quote (eg, some islands of the Wadden Sea in nowadays Nederlands) and such coins (international trade).

 

Romans were well aware of Jutland at least since Strabo (early I century AD) and Jordanes described the "island" of Scandza (modern Scandinavia?) as the motherland of the Goths. The Rugii mentioned by Tacitus (late I century AD) and other authors may have corresponded to a Germanic population from southern Norway.

 

However, all of that are mostly speculations; the last word must come from archaeology, which as far as I'm aware remains silent on this issue.

 

CN was probably thinking about Pytheas (a Greek from Massalia, not a Roman).

Edited September 17, 2009 by sylla

[Andreas]

Those cultural traits could easily have been transferred through trade and/or ancient Norse serving as mercenaries in Germany/Britain or the Empire itself though.

 

Unless we have a definite find of a Roman settlement it's probably just a weak possibility.