Battle of Munda (45BCE)

[Alistair Forrest]

I am currently re-editing my novel Libertas for the second edition and wondered why so few authors (historians and fiction writers) have covered the Battle of Munda (southern Spain 45BCE)? I used Julius Caesar 'The Spanish War' (written by an officer?), Cassius Dio and Appian as sources to depict the build up and the actual battle, which occupies only a couple of chapters with map, but I also walked what (in my opinion) is the battle field - I live there. If anyone wants to help I can send these chapters by email (accessed through my website http://www.alistairforrest.com) or post them there temporarily. Iggulden said he didn't have room (in his Emperor series) for the African and Spanish campaigns, and even the Rome TV series left out Munda, yet it was one of Caesar's greatest moments on the battle field, winning against the odds yet again, inspiring his men in person on the front line. Does anyone know of books/novels that cover the battle in any depth? Any help greatly appreciated.

[sylla]

I am currently re-editing my novel Libertas for the second edition and wondered why so few authors (historians and fiction writers) have covered the Battle of Munda (southern Spain 45BCE)? I used Julius Caesar 'The Spanish War' (written by an officer?), Cassius Dio and Appian as sources to depict the build up and the actual battle, which occupies only a couple of chapters with map, but I also walked what (in my opinion) is the battle field - I live there. If anyone wants to help I can send these chapters by email (accessed through my website http://www.alistairforrest.com) or post them there temporarily. Iggulden said he didn't have room (in his Emperor series) for the African and Spanish campaigns, and even the Rome TV series left out Munda, yet it was one of Caesar's greatest moments on the battle field, winning against the odds yet again, inspiring his men in person on the front line. Does anyone know of books/novels that cover the battle in any depth? Any help greatly appreciated.

The unpopularity of this battle is probably better explained by the utter unreliability of our available sources (all of them seem to have ultimately come from Hirtius); the persistent pretension of presenting Caesar as unnecessarily facing on an unfavorable almost 2:1 ratio a consistently defeated, cornered and residual enemy, all of this after having unopposedly ruled over most of the Roman world and their human and material resources for more than four years, just to report us at the end a customary 30:1 casualty figure, could hardly be perceived as anything else than absurd lavish propaganda.

 

Otherwise, we would be forced to admit that Caesar must have been not only a poor general, but a rather idiotic too (needless to say, against virtually all our available evidence).

Edited September 4, 2009 by sylla

[Alistair Forrest]

The unpopularity of this battle is probably better explained by the utter unreliability of our available sources (all of them seem to have ultimately come from Hirtius); the persistent pretension of presenting Caesar as unnecessarily facing on an unfavorable almost 2:1 ratio a consistently defeated, cornered and residual enemy, all of this after having unopposedly ruled over most of the Roman world and their human and material resources for more than four years, just to report us at the end a customary 30:1 casualty figure, could hardly be perceived as anything else than absurd lavish propaganda.

 

Otherwise, we would be forced to admit that Caesar must have been not only a poor general, but a rather idiotic too (needless to say, against virtually all our available evidence).

 

Thank you, and I agree absolutely about the numbers, having decided from the outset that not only is the figure of 30,000 dead at Munda an extraordinary number considering the retreating Pomeian army was able to retreat behind the "walls" (mountain fortifications?) there to be beseiged for some weeks, but also who the heck was counting? Hirtius was absent of course but having fought under Caesar may well have written "to formula" but nevertheless Caesar finished his bloody work here. Propaganda, yes, but based on facts: Caesar force-marched his (eight?) legions into Spain and defeated the last of the Pompeian resistance (mainly local recruits?). So I do not mention numbers in Libertas, and sigh gratefully that I am writing fiction! However, I am well aware that many of my readers and members of unrv.com will know much more about this than I, and therefore I will be delving extensively into this site not only for the second edition edit but also for the sequel (Sextus Pompey, the Capn Sparrow of his day!).

[sylla]

Propaganda, yes, but based on facts:

Define "facts".

My personal impression if that if Caesar had any two neurons actually making synapses (and of course, if he was the military genius I think he was) he must have profited from his overwhelming material and human advantage, facing then his cornered enemies with at least a comfortable superiority.

Therefore, without any additional evidece I would consider Hirtius' reported legion figures as absurd and utterly unreliable, to say the least.

Edited September 5, 2009 by sylla

[Alistair Forrest]

Define "facts".

Hmm. Journalist colleagues have a mantra, "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story". I think you are saying that if Hirtius and subsequent historians made some of it up, I can be pardoned for the same sins?

[sylla]

Define "facts".

Hmm. Journalist colleagues have a mantra, "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story". I think you are saying that if Hirtius and subsequent historians made some of it up, I can be pardoned for the same sins?

That's a good point and a wonderful mantra... for journalists and other fiction writers.

 

In any case, why are these facts getting in the way of your good story?

 

As I see it, "facts" here mean the desperate last stand of an heterogeneous group of radical Pompeian/Republicans that were for any reason stubbornly avoiding the Dictator's mercy.

 

Is that really more boring than a routine crush-them-all Caesarian victory?