A Few Military Questions

[Spartan19]

Hey, first off Im new here, but have a few questions. I want to do an acinet/classical model/diromma involving Rome. But my questions are

 

Did Rome ever recruit mercenary hoplites to fight alongside the Legionares or to fight in any Roman army?

 

How about the use of Mercenaries (mainly hoplite) against Macedonia?

 

Did the Romans ever have any large scale battles against Greek hoplite forces, or was it all concentrated on Macedon?

 

If hoplite Mercenary units were used, where in the battle line would they be positioned, center or flanks or reserve?

 

And if there were hoplite armies used, were they used with the prereform units or with the Imperial Marius reformed Army?

 

Sorry for so many questions, Im striving for accuracy, so anything helps.

Thanks,

Brian

[Primus Pilus]

Rome didn't use mercenaries the way we've come to know them, but they did use auxilia. These were non-citizen forces fighting as allies of Rome. In eastern campaigns, phalanx units saw freqent action alongside the early legions.

 

In the Fourth Macedonian War Rome extended the campaign south into Greece, and they most assuredly faced Greek phalanx forces, but these were not the classic armies of Greek golden age. The best example of legion vs. Greek style phalanx armies came in the earlier Macedonian Wars and against Pyrrhus of Epirus

 

The post-marian reform legions saw considerable action against eastern forces, such as Sulla against Mithridates, and Pompey's campaigns. However, the Greeks as a military force were pretty much a non-factor in this stage of history.

[Valens]

Rome didn't use mercenaries the way we've come to know them, but they did use auxilia. These were non-citizen forces fighting as allies of Rome. In eastern campaigns, phalanx units saw freqent action alongside the early legions.

 

In the Fourth Macedonian War Rome extended the campaign south into Greece, and they most assuredly faced Greek phalanx forces, but these were not the classic armies of Greek golden age. The best example of legion vs. Greek style phalanx armies came in the earlier Macedonian Wars and against Pyrrhus of Epirus

Just so the topic creator knows, the Romans would've been fighting phalangites rather than hoplites in both the cases primus spoke of. Though the phalangites did ironically start to take on extra armor to the point of being more armored than the old hoplites had been (this would be in the times after Alexander, when cavalry became less abundant in Greek armies).

[Spartan19]

Rome didn't use mercenaries the way we've come to know them, but they did use auxilia. These were non-citizen forces fighting as allies of Rome. In eastern campaigns, phalanx units saw freqent action alongside the early legions.

 

In the Fourth Macedonian War Rome extended the campaign south into Greece, and they most assuredly faced Greek phalanx forces, but these were not the classic armies of Greek golden age. The best example of legion vs. Greek style phalanx armies came in the earlier Macedonian Wars and against Pyrrhus of Epirus

 

The post-marian reform legions saw considerable action against eastern forces, such as Sulla against Mithridates, and Pompey's campaigns. However, the Greeks as a military force were pretty much a non-factor in this stage of history.

So there were phalanxs being used by Romans. Do you know if they bore the color and standards of the Roman army they were fighting with, or if they were just citizen hoplites?

 

Also, do you know if the Macedonians hired Greek mercenaries against their war(s) with Rome?

 

Thanks alot for your help

[Primus Pilus]

So there were phalanxs being used by Romans. Do you know if they bore the color and standards of the Roman army they were fighting with, or if they were just citizen hoplites?

 

 

Difficult to say for sure. There is only limited evidence of actual legion standards dating that far back, so auxilia banners are hard to place. Depending on the situation, they likely would've provided their own standards which may have been supplemented by Roman auxilia standards.

 

Also, do you know if the Macedonians hired Greek mercenaries against their war(s) with Rome?

 

 

No, I'm afraid I don't. The Achaean League was mainly allied with Rome against Macedonia, but this doesn't necessarily mean there weren't forces willing to go to battle with the other side if the payment was right.

[Spartan19]

Hmmmm, interesting stuff. This is getting awfully confusing. I really want to do a 1/72 model battle, and would like to use Macedonians and hoplites as well as Romans, and I cant really find much on google. Even looking up Cynoscephalae I cant find unit lists, and I thought that would be the best bet. But if not Im gonna do Chaeronea.

Thanks for the help.

[P.Clodius]

You could also lookup Pydna, the Romans white washed the Macedonian phalanx.

[Maximus Caesar]

How could Roman Legions defeat the Macedonians if the Macedonians' Sarissas outreached The Legionnaries' short swords? Did they fight a manuever battle, or did they rely on flanking?

[Maximus Caesar]

How could Roman Legions defeat the Macedonians if the Macedonians' Sarissas outreached The Legionnaries' short swords? Did they fight a manuever battle, or did they rely on flanking?

I mean: Did the Roman Legions confront the Macedonians head-on, or did they use flanking? How was it that they were able to defeat the sarissas of the Macedonians if their short swords only had short reach?

[Valens]

How could Roman Legions defeat the Macedonians if the Macedonians' Sarissas outreached The Legionnaries' short swords? Did they fight a manuever battle, or did they rely on flanking?

 

I mean: Did the Roman Legions confront the Macedonians head-on, or did they use flanking? How was it that they were able to defeat the sarissas of the Macedonians if their short swords only had short reach?

Basically, they either found a way to flank the phalanx or found a gap in the phalanx to pour into.

[Crysnia]

About what time did the Romans start using long swords? Was it after the advent of the calvary? I imagine it would be terribly inefficient to use a short sword while on a horse.

[Primus Pilus]

It was a late addition, they weren't using them, at least not as a standard weapon, against the Macedonians.

[Crysnia]

So when about would they have begun using long swords? Or do you know a website that I can check out for the info?

[P.Clodius]

The Phalanx was a single entity 18 deep with a frontage of maybe 1000 + meters, the Roman legions were devided up into Maniples, and later Cohorts which gave the legions greater flexibility. At Pydna, a junior commander called a Tribune detached about 10-15 Maniples on his own initiative to exploit one of the flanks of the Phalanx which had yet to form correctly, once his Maniples had destroyed the unformed wing of the Phalanx he wheeled his Maniples round and attacked the rear of the Phalanx. This battle more than any highlighted the difference between two and underscored the superiority of the Roman system.

[Maximus Caesar]

What did the "checkerboard" formation Of the Roman look like? Could anyone help me by posting a pic on this site?