How romanized was northern Gaul?

[Emperor Goblinus]

I've wondered about this for some time. I've read in some places that northern Gaul was very romanized until the mid to late fifth century, when it's culture came to revolve around Frankish practices and the Merovingian court. In other places, I've read that they retained much of their Celtic culture into the sixth century (Gregory of Tours reported people who could speak Gallic), and that only the cities were very receptive to Roman culture. Could someone clear this up for me?

[Ingsoc]

I think the Franks adopted much of the Roman culture including Latin that was Gaul was the only place it's was still spoken as an every day language.

[Emperor Goblinus]

I think the Franks adopted much of the Roman culture including Latin that was Gaul was the only place it's was still spoken as an every day language.

 

I know that the Franks adopted Latin, but much of the political culture of northern Gaul moved away from the civil office-based, senatorial world of the Mediterranean to one that revolved around the Frankish monarchy. I was just wondering if there were not pronounced differences between the regions before the coming of the Franks.

[sylla]

I've wondered about this for some time. I've read in some places that northern Gaul was very romanized until the mid to late fifth century, when it's culture came to revolve around Frankish practices and the Merovingian court. In other places, I've read that they retained much of their Celtic culture into the sixth century (Gregory of Tours reported people who could speak Gallic), and that only the cities were very receptive to Roman culture. Could someone clear this up for me?

Linguistic traits can be extremely persistent: in fact, that is the operative basis for glottochronology.

 

Culture is a whole different story; as far as I know, almost all evidence of the Gaulish civilization was utterly erased surprisingly quickly, in the lapse of no more than one generation after the Roman conquest.

 

An even more extreme analogous example of linguistic survival in spite of cultural annihilation would be Mesoamerica after the Spanish conquest.

 

Regarding the Romanization of Gaul, Roman imperialism By Craige Brian Championbsite seems like a good place to begin with.

Edited July 16, 2009 by sylla

[Kosmo]

What do you mean by Northern Gaul?

The regions near the Rhine had a rather germanic character before roman conquest (Germania Sup. and Inf and Belgica). It's worth mentioning the powerful batavian rebellion in 69 AD. The area was raided during the III C crisis and villas and many civil settlements are gone. Since the time of Julian franks and later saxons were settled as laeti so by the IV C there was definitely a german population there.

[Emperor Goblinus]

What do you mean by Northern Gaul?

The regions near the Rhine had a rather germanic character before roman conquest (Germania Sup. and Inf and Belgica). It's worth mentioning the powerful batavian rebellion in 69 AD. The area was raided during the III C crisis and villas and many civil settlements are gone. Since the time of Julian franks and later saxons were settled as laeti so by the IV C there was definitely a german population there.

 

I've read a book about AD 69 which went into great detail about the Batavian revolt, and I do know about Julian's settlement of the Franks. I do also know about Julian's Frankish settlements.

 

When I refer to "northern Gaul," I am referring to the areas near the Rhine (Belgium), Brittany, Normandy, the Ile-de-France, and basically all of the other regions to the east of Aquitaine and north of Limousin and Auvergne. This excludes the area around Marseilles which I know had been conquered before the time of Caesar and had been more linked to Mediterranean culture than to their Celtic and Germanic neighbors, as well as the areas immediately surrounding Provence. The question that I'm trying to get at is that, between the period of the Batavian revolt and the beginning of Frankish penetration into Gaul, was the upper tier of the province just as much culturally in tune with Roman civic and cultural life as were the southern Gallic regions, or were there still pronounced "barbarian" cultural aspects? I've read conflicting information on this issue.

[Gaius Paulinus Maximus]

This excludes the area around Marseilles which I know had been conquered before the time of Caesar and had been more linked to Mediterranean culture than to their Celtic and Germanic neighbors, as well as the areas immediately surrounding Provence.

 

Had Massilia been conquered before the time of Ceasar?? I'm not so sure it had. It had remained an independent trading port since being founded by the Greeks in about 600 BC, It made alliances with the major powers in order to keep it's self safe, which it had remained so until the time of the civil wars when it unfortunately choose the wrong side and gave it's support to Pompey which resulted in Caesar besieging and eventually taking the city in 49 BC.

[Emperor Goblinus]

This excludes the area around Marseilles which I know had been conquered before the time of Caesar and had been more linked to Mediterranean culture than to their Celtic and Germanic neighbors, as well as the areas immediately surrounding Provence.

 

Had Massilia been conquered before the time of Ceasar?? I'm not so sure it had. It had remained an independent trading port since being founded by the Greeks in about 600 BC, It made alliances with the major powers in order to keep it's self safe, which it had remained so until the time of the civil wars when it unfortunately choose the wrong side and gave it's support to Pompey which resulted in Caesar besieging and eventually taking the city in 49 BC.

 

Whoops, stupid of me. I know about it's ancient status and alliance to Rome during the Second Punic War, I was just very much under the impression that the Romans had a foothold in that region a decade or so before Caesar, due to Massilia asking for aid against the Ligures.

[Northern Neil]

Whoops, stupid of me. I know about it's ancient status and alliance to Rome during the Second Punic War, I was just very much under the impression that the Romans had a foothold in that region a decade or so before Caesar, due to Massilia asking for aid against the Ligures.

I was under the impression that is was a Roman protectorate from the Second Punic war onwards, and therefore a de facto part of the Roman world.

[Ursus]

While it's over 20 years old, Garnsey and Saller's The Roman Empire make a good case that Romanization decreased the further one traveled from the Mediterranean core. If look at economic development and patterns of local recruitment into the Equestrian and Senatorial orders, northern Gaul and Britain lag behind Italy, Africa, southern Gaul and Spain.

 

To answer your question, I think northern Gaul was Romanized enough to retain its Romanitas after barbarian conquest (unlike Britain), but otherwise it was a peripheral part of the empire in cultural terms.

[Kosmo]

The regions of southern France between the italian and the spanish borders was Gallia Narbonensis a deeply romanized region, conquered since 121 BC, later a senatorial province also known as Gallia Togata. Massalia was a de jure ally until Caesar but a de facto protectorate since the founding of Narbo.

The rest of Gaul was Hairy Gaul, Gallia Comata where roman remains are less impressive but it was still well romanized. Bretagne it's a peculiar case with the survival of a pre-roman language until recent times.

Edited July 21, 2009 by Kosmo

[Centurion-Macro]

I think that it was quite Romanized, although it was very near the out rim of the empire so it kept a few of its Celtic beliefs I think. I know that it was unsettled before Britain was conquered by Claudius, because the British had contact with a lot of the Northern Gallic tribes.