Pope claims human remains belong to St Paul

[Viggen]

Human remains found beneath the Vatican have been identified as belonging to St Paul, Pope Benedict XVI said, apparently laying to rest the mystery of a tomb first discovered in the city in 2006. Archaeologists found material and fragments of bone dating to the first or second century AD inside the tomb at the basilica of St Paul Outside the Walls in Rome. Vatican experts claim the tomb's position, underneath the epigraph Paulo Apostolo Mart (Paul the Apostle and Martyr), at the base of the main altar is proof that it belongs to the apostle...

 

...full article at The Guardian

 

 

...and a reply No proof that Vatican bones are St Paul's, says Dutch expert

 

Responding to the claim by Pope Benedict XVI that the bones of St Paul have been found in Rome, a Dutch expert, Rengert Elburg, said Monday this can never be proven. Elburg, an expert on archaeological study of old bones and organic remains for the government of the German state of Saxony, told the German Press Agency dpa in an interview, 'It's impossible to establish that it's him.'

[Klingan]

Not again!

[Nephele]

The Pope said Sunday that a probe through a tiny hole in the sarcophagus at the Basilica of St Paul Outside the Wall proved they contained remains from the time of Christ.

 

If Indian Jones has taught us anything, then the Pope & Co. had better keep their eyes tightly shut when they open up that ancient sarcophagus...

 

-- Nephele

[sylla]

Human remains found beneath the Vatican have been identified as belonging to St Paul, Pope Benedict XVI said, apparently laying to rest the mystery of a tomb first discovered in the city in 2006. Archaeologists found material and fragments of bone dating to the first or second century AD inside the tomb at the basilica of St Paul Outside the Walls in Rome. Vatican experts claim the tomb's position, underneath the epigraph Paulo Apostolo Mart (Paul the Apostle and Martyr), at the base of the main altar is proof that it belongs to the apostle...

 

...full article at The Guardian

 

 

...and a reply No proof that Vatican bones are St Paul's, says Dutch expert

 

Responding to the claim by Pope Benedict XVI that the bones of St Paul have been found in Rome, a Dutch expert, Rengert Elburg, said Monday this can never be proven. Elburg, an expert on archaeological study of old bones and organic remains for the government of the German state of Saxony, told the German Press Agency dpa in an interview, 'It's impossible to establish that it's him.'

That faith and research are fundamentally incompatible with each other is hardly news; however, even if Mgr. Ratzinger were no fan of Popper, his quoted statement on this timely finding is frankly detrimental and even offensive for any estimation of the true believers' intelligence level.

 

Needless to say, Mr. Elburg's conclusion is self-evident; even if the actual corpse of Saul/Paul were before us, there's no way it can be authenticated, irrespectively of the performed biologic or chemical analysis; there's simply no standard to compare with.

 

Even if for the sake of the argument a 100% accuracy for the radioisotope measure is admitted (which is patently not the case, given the potential effect of error, biases or even fraud), that would only determine the approximate dating for the analyzed bone samples; nothing more.

 

Of the multiple fallacies involved, probably the most conspicuous is a false dilemma;

- as a valid incompatible dating for this sample would absolutely discard that it came from Saul/Paul (True),

- then a compatible dating (I or II century AD, as it was reported) would automatically prove such thesis (False);

a false dilemma, because it ignores many other alternatives; ie. that the bone sample came from any other human being from those centuries.

 

Additionally, the main source for the tradition referred by the Pope (Paul's beheading in Rome) would be the Acts of Paul, a collection of texts that are not only considered apocryphal by the Catholic Church itself, but which historic value is dubious at best.

 

In any case, the doctrine of the Papal infallibility is not at risk, as it only applies when the statements are explicitly made Ex Cathedra.

 

It seems no significant theological contribution will come out from the determination of the purportedly sacred nature of these relics; just business.

[The Augusta]

Not again!

 

 

Quite! Do any of us care? Find me the ashes of Augustus and I might get excited....

Edited July 5, 2009 by The Augusta

[Formosus Viriustus]

Is Saint Paul For Real ? Who Cares ?

 

[sylla]

Is Saint Paul For Real ? Who Cares ?

Edited July 6, 2009 by sylla

[Formosus Viriustus]

Maybe it is King Tut's body in the St-Paul sarcophagus ? I wouldn't put that beyond the catholics.

 

F rmosus

[sylla]

Maybe it is King Tut's body in the St-Paul sarcophagus ? I wouldn't put that beyond the catholics.

 

F rmosus

Put in that way, if the body in King Tut's sarcophagus were Paul, that would be a real miracle .

Edited July 6, 2009 by sylla