M. Porcius Cato

Found a cool set of photos of an excavated Punic warship. See HERE.

L Julius Caesar was in command of the Southern Theatre during the Social War. Sulla served directly under him. And he was murdered by Pro Marians after Cinna and Marius took the city while Sulla was fighting Mithridates. Appian Civ. War. 1.72 So, we might guess correctly that L Julius Caesar was no friend of the Marian faction. Maybe Sulla's animosity to the Marians was strengthened by their murder of Cato and Caesar?

Your argument would be persuasive if the Romans--who were at various times enemies of the Gauls, Spaniards, Corsicans, Numidians, Carthaginians, Egyptians, Syrians, Thracians, Greeks, and other Italians--had leveled the charge of baby-killing against their other enemies. But they didn't. If the Romans were simply trying to demonize the Carthaginians, why that SPECIFIC charge? And why--if it were mere demonization--do we actually find heaps of dead babies in Carthage, but nowhere in Gaul, Spain, Corsica, etc? And why--if it were merely a ROMAN demonization of Carthage--do we find OTHER enemies of the Phoenicians laying the same charge against the Phoenicians, but not against Romans and everyone else? Was the whole ancient world part of a conspiracy to blacken the repuation of the Punic baby-lovers? I don't think so. Of course it's true that the Romans were liable to spread lies about Carthage, but for the exact same lie to be spread about the exact same people and no others? That seems like a pretty massive coincidence to me.

Wait .. which Cato are we talking about here? The father of Cato the Younger and grandson of Cato the Elder. See below:

I suppose that's a fair (if conservative) reading. Regarding familial allegiances, I'd point out that Sulla at this point would have been good friends with Lucius' brother, Marcus Porcius Cato. I wonder what Lucius Julius Caesar's connection to Sulla was...

What about the evidence of child sacrifice among the Phoenicians in Canaan?

And I guess the answer to that would be if the death of L. Porcius Cato is deemed to have had any significant impact on the war or not, which I don't believe it did. Impossible to know, but I'll bet it hardened attitudes against the Marian faction. Some of the friends of the Porcii Catones, like Sulla, weren't the kind of people you wanted to tick off. Thus, the historically important issue may not be the influence of Cato's murder on the Social War but its influence on the coming civil war with Marius.

I guess the involvement of Marius' son in the death of L. Porcius Cato belongs in the section on the Social War (if it's important enough to include at all).

Tell it to Joey Buttafuoco.

Livy HERE.

Cato was not Caepio.

I could hardly understand my beloved Texan aunt when she spoke with her brother. They understood me without a problem. As a salesman, I was taught to speak with that flat mid-western accent. Those yokels understood, but preferred my Brooklynese. Which demonstrates what? Frankly, I don't think it demonstrates anything other than that Brooklynese--taught to all American school-children through Bugs Bunny--is more familiar to more people than are the various accents of Dixie.

Listen, you reprobate: 'Y'all'; "tree", 'mon'... [...going to invade Eyeran.], etc. Are you saying that there are more funny pronunciations the further south and west you go? Why not say that there are more funny pronunciations the further north and east you go? It seems completely jingoistic to think that the dialect of one's own neighborhood sets the standard by which all other dialects are judged.

Huh?

I seem to recall reading that there was a citizens' ring. Is that purely a fantasy?

Ave PP. In what way specifically? And are you referring to any particular tribe? Tribes of Illinois.

I'd say that the most important cause of the decline of oratory is a fundamental change in the political culture. In the Roman republic, ALL political actions--proposals, debates, votes, and vetoes--were conducted face-to-face with your political adversaries, typically before the watchful eyes of the voters. If you wanted to veto a proposal in ancient Rome, you had to show up to the public reading of the bill, and in full view of everyone (including hired thugs who might crack your skull), impose your veto--and to veto the bill in a way that would be seen as immediately justifiable to everyone present. Even political actions that were not conducted before voters (i.e., senatorial debate) had to be conducted in the physical presence of a quorum of the Senate. Today, much--maybe most--actual political action takes place in relative privacy. Bills are drafted in private, can be introduced, debated, voted up or down, and vetoed with only a sliver of the populace ever seeing the drama unfold. At least in the US, speeches can even be "read into the record" by e-mail! Thus, the act of persuasion has moved from the public sphere toward the personal sphere, and so it shouldn't be surprising that political persuasion has lost its theatrical flavoring. Moreover, most of the little political action that is conducted in public is delivered to the public on television; consequently, political action has more of the toned-down quality of the TV actor than that of the stage actor.

Interesting observation regarding Northern Irish and North American accents. From the Dialects of English archive, here are three samples so you can judge for yourself: 1) From Illinois 2) From Warwickshire 3) From Northern Ireland.

One might also ask about the origin of modern British English. Even in the last 75 years, the vowels and consonants heard at Oxford and Cambridge have changed. Winston Churchill and Tony Blair--two prime ministers separated by a common language?

For our modern pagans, enjoy this op-ed by Mary Lefkowitz.

Among moderns, David best captures the austere heroic realism of the classical era. Here's The Oath of the Horatii by Jacques-Louis David.

Check out Orosius Book 5. Also, this thread belongs in the Res Publica sub-fora.

Sulla was said to have reduced Samnite cities into mere villages, so they were certainly reduced as a potential influence as well as a potential threat. For modern place names reflecting Samnite influences, see HERE.

Looks like this flick will be animated. See HERE.

Moreover, the Numidians under Labienus kicked Caesar's agmen at Ruspina. Indeed, had the day not grown dark while Caesar's men were getting pelted to oblivion, Africa would have been Caesar's final resting place.