Pertinax

and.. both those battles were "resolved" (or the rout was triggered by) the first pilum wave into an enemy provoked to attack over disadvantageous terrain -ok not that simple but the first pilum shock to break forward momentum did the key psychological (and I imagine physical) damage.

FV I know what you are saying, and I dont disagree -but I was suggesting heavier casualties in the whole episode of the engagement including the rout of the broken side-Boudiccas revolt being our best known for uneven fatalities in pitched battle.

Virgil -the "true story" is very good , thanks for posting. GO , was the idea of "maiming" in a European theatre context (ie;conventional ground war versus large scale communist infantry/mech forces? Was there not also a relationship to lowish velocity rounds as a potential ballistic norm? Point here as well-if you have a gladius ,you are going to aim to kill, directly: if you have a weapon designed to cause trauma (and you know that ) will you use it? Id reiterate a point ive mentioned previously, we know the actual out and out killing potential of the pilum/gladius/scutum combination was unmatched for centuries and that the "theatricality" of many new gunpowder weapons was their main belligerent focus (some say the tank is a sort of lethal theatrical device to terrorise as much as to destroy) , now I assume pur ballistic weaponry can be made to produce any desired effect but actual inflicted fatalities have dropped massivley on dispersed battlefields.

In keeping with the mood of levity presently sweeping the Forum , especially amongst those who are normally sober ,dignified and full of gravity , I submit an intriguing image . Perhaps members can think of a fitting caption? http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...&cmd=si&img=659

I believe their are illustrations in the well known book " A Back Passage to India" . -_- Thre are rumors of a film "The Empire Strikes Back" ,as well.

Not a flattering likeness I must say, at his best he looked like a debonair Bond villain from early 1960's Istanbul. I regret to say that the (widely and gleefuly) rumoured liaisons of the three parties were of a Biblical Nature.

AD and Germanicus refer to the Cannabaciae earlier in the thread. As AD very correctly states the impregnated cakes were used to supress sexual desire in a very immanent sense, though the use of Vitex Agnus Castus was also known as an antaphrodisiac for men and a promoter of menstrual comfort for women. http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...&cmd=si&img=336 Rue (link above) was also used to prevent amorous advances after childbirth.

Non Britons may be most interested to know the improbably salacious ( but likely correct) gossip that The Viceroy of India , his Lady Wife and Mr Jinnah were rumoured allto be very close friends.. And I dont mean they had tea together. So the Viceroy and Mr Jinnah both had a small part in the process.

Broke away? I was under the impression that the British themselves carved that up when they left to keep the Muslims & Hindus from falling into civil strife? It was the Paki leader who wanted a separate Pakistan (east and west). Yes it is Jinnah who bears responsibility for this Right , now back to the mastodon: so you are apologising to an alien race who have re-animated our mammoths in order to brain-implant them , and send them out to variously trample and gore any surviving humanoids? I feel that the Martians should apologise to the Killer Cyborgs. Any Martians here? I apologize for being ill informed about the 20th Century politics of South Asia... and I apologize for being the only one in this thread still apologizing. I accept your apology. And apologise that you are the only person so doing.

You are correct FV -I should have said we didnt have the nerve to face them down as the country was weary of conflict.

1.Serious bit With Pakistan and India we(Britain) wanted to get out without the house catching fire, and get out quickly. I believe we failed to have the guts to stay and make a proper settlement. Niraud Chaudhri's book "Thy Hand Great Anarch" is the essential mould breaker for Europeans on a liberal guilt trip-they should be guilty , but about legging it before doing a proper job .Witness the icons of hippiedom demolished wholesale. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/020115577...glance&n=283155 2.Not so serious ps: how is it that a mastodon has survived into a post apocalyptic scenario? is it a genetically engineered killer mastodon escaped from a jurassic park type scenario? Or a zombie mastodon? Explain yoursel Moonlapse.

So in terms of martial efficacy we seem to be developing an argument that: if a person of reasonable intelligence finds himself in charge of an army with fully capable NCO's , who feel personal loyalty to both unit and CinC , you'd better get out of the way.Sounds a little like Gaius Julius Caeser. Looping back to my first post on the Civil War the "retreiving" of casualties was mentioned as a major "alternative" to loading/re-loading a weapon as an act of participation (and bravery) but an avoidance of killing. Virgil-I was reading about Marine units "response to ambush" in (Vietnam) combat, am I correct in saying the essential activity was to put out fire (almost regardless of direction)? That now makes sense in relation to your sending of any munitions in the right general direction.

and one here in Brigantia... http://www.richardwoodall.com/

Interesting stuff FV. I just wonder what happens in counter insurgency operations? I presume even less effective contact given the fluidity and uncertainty of urban counter terror ops. OK another angle then -do effective leaders ,who are adaptable and "dynamic" (an overused word ,I apologise) make the difference on a strategic and tactical level in what must always be a clash of "equally ineffective" combatants (Monash, Lawrence, Wingate, Caesar?)? We know inflexible commanders are ,literally , the kiss of death..(Crimea, Franco-Prussian, 1 WW )? I was hoping other members would get drawn in but no luck so far..must be me rambling on again..

Wow! Your cyborg gattling prosthetic is most realistic. also your artwork is near photo-realistic, I almost smelt the radiation drenched post-apocalyptic landscape.

Follicularly exuberant would be acceptable.

I wonder if what we are turning over in this thread ,is in fact, the concentration of killing on any given battlefield by elite units who are by inclination and training more able to kill? The SS units moving into France at the head of the German assault were in constant demand for their aggressive and effective intervention, hence suffering heavier casualties themselves (Quarrie " Hitler's Samurai") though it should be noted less casualties than badly lead wehrmacht units. Or is the whole equation that only a few will seek to kill in any situation, so get them together as an effective unit? Chicken and egg paradox.