Pertinax

Thank you DC. I suppose we could say that the Patron's businesswas the Plebians!

Augustus seems to have dismantled many "old fashioned" ceremonies and stylistic devices, which makes the period very interesting: purple is outside the scope of the work (as it is built environment only), but I will follow the lead your post suggests to see what happened to the awesomely expensive murex dye. I wonder , did the garments smell fishy?

I have been delving through this work http://www.amazon.co.uk/Society-Pompeii-He...8&s=gateway being a great lover of Pompeii and Herculaneum. As far as the social hierarchy of houses and their internal layouts go I have started a thread here: http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?showto...amp;#entry43683 the changing styles of layout and decoration ,are intimate to the social upheavals of the period from the late Republic to approximately the death of Pliny The Elder. Indeed Pliny is a direct commentator on those very styles most acessible to himself in the city of Pompeii. What is further interesting is the hierarchy of colours used by the aspiring Patron or Freedman in his home.The cost of pigments being the socially determining factor. Firstly, the most basic colouration is a limewash white, this is the very least that could be applied to a room-though a grand house might contain basic rooms with such colouration. Cinnabar Red is the first major step into a luxurious environment, a painting contractor would charge a client directly for use of such a pigment (it is a sulphide of Mercury , HgS and associated with volcanic regions). http://www.galleries.com/minerals/sulfides...ar/cinnabar.htm Yellow ochre is another attested pigment , derived from clays and used as a general panel colour for rooms to be used for conspicuous display, as an iron oxide this will not have been rare ( rusty nails would do) but a consistent pure colour would need effort and application http://webexhibits.org/pigments/indiv/over...ellowochre.html http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...=si&img=449 Then we ascend to blue , from lapis lazuli, very expensive and used only for the most exquisite of decorations: here we have the pigments displayed in the palette of the late , great John Davis of LEG II AVG http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...=si&img=907 http://www.gemstone.org/gem-by-gem/english/lapis.html Finally black, was the colour for the grandest of state rooms, this may seem quite a strange circumstance to the modern historian, its weighty profundity is the key to its popularity in Roman sensibilities.This would be "bone black" or a high quality charcoal made from ivory (or possibly other dense bones), hence its inordinate cost. edit note: no plant or animal will actually yield a true black , so the secret is in the mechanism of preparation with the blackest yielding items. I must also offer one decorative motif that relates to specific servile areas of the house , especially where the house is not of the highest class( where physical separation would be near total) that is the device of zebra striped panels as a stark emblem contrasted with sumptuous decoration elsewhere. http://www.uwm.edu/Course/mythology/0900/1501.jpg A final item that must be mentioned is this , the division/colouration is not an artifice relating to privacy, indeed as far as I can see privacy is minimal ( I assume previous mention of the lack of Roman body shame is relevant here) however access to the intimate councils of the Paterfamilias is crucial. So all of this artifice is as regards degrees of intimacy of patronage , not zones of privacy within a building .An important clue here is that , if one stands in the entrance hall of many of the Pompeiian houses -you can see right to the very heart of the house with the Paterfamilias framed in his "seat of power" , though you might not be able to physically reach him if your status was too low, more clienti than amici...

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The difficulty we will have looking at this evidence from Pompeii and Ercolano, is that the insulae are a much more specific big city phenomena. However the insulae stand in the "client" section of our suggested hierarchy of forms, so looking at houses alone (excluding villas as a separate non-urban form) I presently assume that :as soon as a toehold on the rung of patronage is acquired the social coding of space will (in a given epoch) proceed from the poorest Patron (with perhaps one meagre "public" room for a few clients ) to the greatest (with a large house, and a subtle range of gradated spaces for greater intimacy) but that the "code" will be understood by all. This leads me to ask would our hero Vorenus (HBO Rome) start to recieve clients in his insula? Do we have a public space in the urban areas defined in a different way? Looks like I will have to extend this project to the Insulae as well. The use of the column is , it would seem, an immediate signifier of Patron status ,even if on a smalll scale or indeed painted as a theatrical style "backcloth" in a defined space ; indeed the theatre motif is yet another borrowing from Greek "public" usage , so a trompe l'oeil setting is not ,de facto, the home a pooorer Patron. DCs post also leads me to wonder about the amount of "living" done outside the home by the Plebs and if being a client meant a sort of peripatetic lifestyle round nodes of Patronage. note: I have also blogged as regards pigmentation hierarchies: http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?automo...p;showentry=500

I can only echo those sentiments, best of luck old chap.

What puzzles me is the Greek house,( in relation to your comment), if we have a similar male dominance of property and gender (and a conviviality of congress based on "public" style) , why does one property have male only areas, and the other not? Is this again a reflection of "separate" behaviours ( we see a similar physical division in the palais and hotels of the Higher Estates in the France of Loius XIV, whre the Chatelaine lead an almost independent social existence from her husband). We are slightly off topic , but this is one area where borrowing from Greeek culture seems not to have occured , despite usage of the same architectural ideas.

I havent enough information to write a coherent summary as yet , but another very interesting thing is a total lack of gender division of space. This is totally at odds to the Greek usage of domestic space, one might expect some continuity in transmission of cultural ideas, apparently not. The Roman house ( of this time and social rank) is solely built on the concepts of public versus private and grand versus humble:a client proceeds from being received as part of a crowd in a public space, via select dining in the triclinium to an intimate personal reception in the cubiculum. The more prestigious the Patron, the bigger the house. THere is a division between servile and non-servile space as would be expected , but it also appears that children of the household ( without the modern obfustication of "adolescence" ) slept with servile staff/slaves.The Greek house is strictly gender divided, the Roman house is not , the person of the paterfamilias is key , not his strict habitation.

Anything that makes you travel! My personal choices, 1 and 4.

If youve visited my msn blog ,you will see that I have posted even more shots relating to each blog entry here. The strange thing is that museums seem to fall into three groups, 1. badly set up , but you can take any pictures you wish 2. well set up but absolutely no photos allowed. 3.beautifully catalogued but with a fraction of actual artefacts on show, the rest jealously guarded by mad dogs and gorgon like women. Perhaps I should get out less.

I am progressing through this work: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Society-Pompeii-He...8&s=gateway and I have been fascinated by the insights it provides into "decoding" of property. The elements of layout and usage (along with decoration and ornament) are susceptible to comprehension in terms of the Patron/client relationships of Roman society. What I was unaware of was the subtle changes in decorative finish to gradate rooms and spaces from public to private (cubiculum at the extreme). The use columns (in fact or as trompe l'oeil ) are a significant Grecian influence, aping Greek public architecture to hint at the status of the Patron as a Public figure . Crassus is alleged to be the first to have used marble on actual imported colums, creating a sort of succese de scandale at his "eastern" fashionability.The use of columns ,which we tend to associate with the houses of Pompeii , is a very specific device to give substance to a social code.Only he who received clients could possibly have such features in his house, and most interestingly his home was undivided from his "workplace" in that it was literally his "power-house". A lot of scholarly work has been undertaken at Pompeii focussing on the minutiae of chronological change in decorative styles , however it appears that what was assumed to be a chronology is now actually perceived as a scheme of variable internal quality within a given house depending on the social function of the room. The "rank" of the room being very strictly delineated by its decor.

Northern Kent in England.Its rather pleasant . http://www.faversham.org/pages/standard.aspx?i_PageID=155

Firstly ill shift this across to the "medicine " thread where it will be more at home. Secondly : a rather generalised answer, but I think appropriate : I dont think that Rome as a "medical" episode can be taken out of the evolving context of ethnobotanical medicines , so as the Romans did in all areas they synthesised and made practical application of existing known plant medicines. The initial mainstream practical impetus would be from collected Greek and some Egyptian sources , but (I personally feel that ) Celtiberian and Gallic folk medicines would be assimilated as well. I think we must assume that combat and obstetric experience are the basis of practical action , but, the Romans had no "germ theory" as regards transmission of toxins/bacilliae-however all the practical effort put into general "good practice" indicates that treatment of infection was taken very seriously. Acetum as a wound cleanser is still superior to carbolic acid , honey is still a wound dressing, Olive oil is strongly bactericidal , and along with garlic is a good basis for clearing deep seated candida infections caused by antibiotic overuse.

Yep "heritage industry" strikes again. Im sure everyone has noticed that , each time a "new" British site is opened up, the first comment on the "amazing find" is from the Head of Tourism. In fairness the Hadrianic sites cover a stretch of country here, not blessed with great wealth

:drunk: :blowup: :chair:

Most definitely Yes ive drifted from discussing shame, to honour and glory through noble defeat.

I venture to suggest that the actions and motivation of Leonidas and his unit of all-sire men ( ie: they had all sons to carry the bloodline) would be recognisable to any adherent of the Bushi code , from nonchalant flippancy(and awe inspiring sang froid) carried off with aplomb: " lay down your arms" exhorts the Persian ( with a slight numerical advantadge) , "come and get them" quoth Leonidas; to the uncompromising manner of their deaths

Yes,she fought all the way, not a bad sign.

AOS , do not be discouraged , but this item is perhaps better placed in this Forum. If you are posting in the "Academia" you should ask, firstly to be Tyrant ( ie: moderator-by pm to the Triumvirate or failing that the Legatii) for the thread in question, and secondly you should perhaps lean more towards a scenario or thesis that needs wide ranging conceptual consideration ( and therefore supportive cited primary sources to bolster your argument). This topic is good in its own right but is more suited to exposition of practical suggestions, very much like "wearing the Gladius....". Ive posted this note publicly not to discourage posting in "Academia" , nor indeed to admonish the keen and worthy Antiochus , rather to focus on the very particular nature of the "Academia " sub-Forum. I f I err , I expect the Triumvirii will comment.

I would not contend that individual Celtiberian smiths were unable to produce excellent work, however your comedic point is relevant: I suggest a generality of greater collective skill in mass production, access to the best materials, distributive skill, and re-supply in bulk. The medical instruments actually become ,not only fine and beautiful as we move toward Rome , but actually over elaborate for purpose ( decoration that would host bacteria for example)! A hilt example: http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...si&img=1224 and rather more painful http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...si&img=1225

I quote a little from the Oxford Companion to the Ancient World " the modern concept of sin had no equivalent in Greek or Latin" . The logic being that the Christian idea accommodates two basic and coherent senses: offences against moral codes and secondly action against the law/will of God. The underlying presumption is of voulantriness . The conceptual tools that the "Greeks" used were more akin to wrongdoing and lawlesness.Latin ( I think ) looks more to" fault, eror or blemish" as behavioural abberations. Our resident language scholars will need to correct me if I err. Certainly (as Pantagathus says) Greeks and Macedonians would be shamed by military failure, that form of service being so intimate to proper citizenship.As regards sexuality , well our modern terms and references are useless, people were sexual beings and dependent on age/status/education liasons could be formed which would nowadays be condemmed as "grossly unnatural" , but at that time were considered a sort of sophomoric rite ( I simplify greatly: but we have covered this topic previously). Its interesting to reflect on "no body shame " as a daily actuality is it not ? Unthinkable now , which is praiseworthy perhaps, given the rise of obesity. I think the division of Religion (sacred) and Morality (action) might be a key point to ponder.

Apologies, I misinterpreted "rating" as relating to file type :bag:

A thorough, lucid review. Its a shame that ADs detractors didnt actually read it before commenting.

What format was the image taken in (tif perhaps)and quality of pixellation?