Pertinax

Britain is unusual in being a Monarchy , run by a man, who thinks he is a President.

And, for all you scribes and Bibliophiles out there: http://www.sca.org.au/st_florians/universi...asicguide.htm#7 scroll down to item 7, its the "how to lime your animal skin". I assume the action of a"skivver" is not needed for academic quality work, given that pungent animal droppings were used as a highly effective hair and bristle remover. I am also informed that for rough and ready work, an animals brain makes a handy ready-to-use paste for depilation "in the field" . For the more fastidious: http://www.lib.umich.edu/pap/exhibits/papy...g/pm_intro.html a small item on papyrus.

Ugh...I hate turnips, period, and somehow this concept doesn't make it any better. Sweet Lady , surely the cute little quail are to your liking?

A useful link for those travelling to York: http://www.iknow-yorkshire.co.uk/north_yor...ties/index2.htm please pm me if you have a query regarding a particular hotel , as I know quite a few of them.

A useful link here , courtesy of the "Apicius" Group posters (after hearing of my interest in Sumerian Beer): http://www.archaeology.org/online/features/food/index.html Turnips in Blood anyone? The barley porridge has a ring of ordinary authenticity about it. Enjoy!

According to Pliny, the manufacture of parchment/vellum was ascribed to Eumenes II of Pergamum (197-158 B. C.) but didn't supersede papyrus until the late Roman period. Papyrus for writing was even grown on Sicily until the Middle Ages. Slightly unfortunate as the "survivability" is exceptional . I now see that deer, calf and pig are all used for vellum , whereas parchment seems to be heavier older skins (sheep in particular for diplomas).

And another question for the thread , was vellum (limed calfskin) a much later invention?

Questioning your sanity would surely be quite natural , but who could be so thoughtless as regards your philological saltimbancary!

If you scroll back to this entry http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...=si&img=447 here is one of the original wooden tablets in the museum at Vindolanda, a thin veneer of wax covered the indented surface.

Glad you cleared that one up GO, as you know I am a disciple of Buhner http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sacred-Herbal-Heal...TF8&s=books which oddly enough is reviewed in my blog , I deem it the sacred obligation of all learned persons to remain in a state of intoxicated , elevated consciousness -and hence more susceptible to the Divine promptings of the Gods. Pantagathus must therefore seek after a state of intoxicated spiritual excellence at all times. Praise Mercurius!

I apologise if I veer between our specific thread and paleopathology/toxicology, but I cant divorce them in my own head. If I give a small quote from Alistair Lax "Toxin" http://www.amazon.co.uk/Toxin-Bacterial-Po...4374831?ie=UTF8 this might put some perspective on the odds of distinguishing a specific identifiable cause of epidemic mortality (at any stage in history!): "many people consider the first description that ties with the symptoms of true plague are those of the [Justinian event] 540 .It appears that plague is a relatively new disease , the complete DNA of Y.Pestis (isolated 2000) shows remarkable similarity to Y.pseudotuberculosis- (essentially a bad stomach bug..you may have had it yourself as "gastro enteritis"), ....Y .pestis seems to be in a state of genetic flux having recently found a new niche "lifestyle"...emerging from Y.t somewhere between 500 and 20,000 years ago...as the Justinian episode was 1,500 years ago the "latest" date is 540...the time frame (above) is incredibly short in evolutioonary terms...so that first event could have had an extra virulence as it was its first visitation to a host population without antibodies" Might we not conjecture therefore that "unvisited populations" first touched by a new mutation toxin are doubly at risk, and a co-factor (which appeared in the Justinian and Medieval plagues) was a period of very bad weather conditions (cold/wet) for a period of years.A disease with a very slow "re-apperence" event timing will always kill heavily, as no residual immunity remains. General grist for the mill. PS so what the weather like in Gaul then?

A point on assymetry (as regards immunity). A body of Roman combatants will tend to be males (age 16-45) in tough physical condition. Non-combatants exposed to a pathogen trail/other vectors will have a more "normal" age/ sex distribution curve , and hence have more "at risk" age specific cohorts.

A "trail of pathogens" is a useful phrase to describe an army. Tuberculosis, here is a good paleopathology piece: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerende...ageindex=1#page note that this ties to remarks I have made in the past as to a possible Roman aversion to milk drinking (from cattle).Note also , like parasitic diseases, that a young population without immunity are greatly at risk. Could I also mention sexually transmitted disease as a weakening co-factor, what do armies require after food and drink? This small blurb relates to the "old world-bad" idea" http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/case_syphilis/interview.html

Does this mean he must remain sober at all times?

I did post some time ago on the range of malaria in antiquity, ( I shall seek it out and link when I find it!) suffice to say that that range was considerable-into the Baltic in the North for example: so bear in mind that the only real requirement is a good supply of stagnant water (siege works? marching camps?) as a medium for the insect , one tends to think malaria should not be ignored. Again consider that malaria has (in essence) two strains, 1.deadly 2. episodicaly debilitating . Animal borne disease without doubt-I personally, today , have an identifiable client base of Farmers working with bovines that require episodic medication. Cow saliva is a great medium for passing on parasites, indeed the mode of transmission illustrates how many parasitic organisms move from life cycle stage 1 in a ruminant host to active mischief in an omnivore, (either by airborne contact via saliva or ingestion via the beast as food). The Ancients used plenty of substances that would deal with parasites (my blog lists some), wormwood, feverfew , mastik and orris root for example, but parasite incursion is an ongoing war . If you slept with your sheep ( :tomato: order at the back!) then one burrowing sheep tick (which wont live on you , but will pass infected blood into you) can make you rather unwell, lyme's disease (rat urine being the other source). http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/diseases/facts/lymedisease.htm TB I will return to, and more on parasites later -I must away for now.

In fairness , I must move this into the "Hora Postillia" ...but, do not be put off posting, as you can see ive spliced some relevant items into this topic from the "mother topic".

Apologies MPC , I was looking the other way! OK-the communicable "big killers" are "late period" arrivals. The difficulty is that malaria and "plague" are the two certain "classical " killers. Now the problem as regards what is understood to "be plague" is this, some suggest that plague should only be named as such when it is a communicable variant of Anthrax (which is of course animal originated, but mutated in its impact into the human population ) which requires tissue analysis from a cadaver (and can still be risky if dormant in ,say, a sealed lead coffin). The "plague" that we tend to think of (Black Death) is now thought to have two totally independent components to it ( mode of transmission is not the issue here , so Ill skip the rats/parasites vector we all know and love) , 1: the well known buboes erupting in armpit/groin in relation to lymph structure , which showed a gross assault on the lymphatics/endoctine system (though the eruption indicates a dire effort by the system to fight back)-certainly many with this sympton did perish, but not all , as usual the very young and the elderly or infirm succumbed.So pustules do not equal certain death.The physical crisis might pass within three days to two weeks. 2.A pulmonary anaphylaxis which could be appeared to kill without any eruption of the skin , but might well have occured at the same time by coincidence was almost certainly fatal to an already debilitated person.This vector appearing to kill within hours of airborne contact. I hope my digression helps, what I hope to point out is that: - the existing pre-disposition to morbidity in a population will accelerate a disease event ( starving people with dirty water will suffer parasitic attack leaving the immune responses depleted) and : - unless we have plenty of tissue samples from known fatalities we can only conjecture as to "what" did it. The Thirty Years War is the best example of early modern conflict where ,communication and food supply disruption, looting, and communicable disease conspired to cause heavy civilian casualties-though I venture to suggest the rupturing of the social fabric is the most telling component. edit: my suggestion might be, if a population is weakened by social disruption and a basic lack of simple medications and foodstuffs , parasitic infection (from gardia lambli (dirty water) to trichonosis (encysted pork) will pre dispose a population to reater cohort morbidty. phew! Does that help? This sort of work is more to do with physical analysis of identifiable "cororsive " diseases ( sclerosis, osteoperosis, dvt) from cadaver inspection, rather than communicable disease. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Diseases-Antiquity...TF8&s=books

Fall of Rome is last. The torment is nearly over. Ocelot spleen Augusta? Or some other rich Imperalist tidbit?

Im glad to see that you are all unscathed .

Also-the last scene was a "Godfather " parody, ( Constantine/Corleone in a Holy Council has main rival and child throttled , whilst delivering portentous lines..oh dear). His death bed conversion wasnt much in evidence.

Constantine-oh dear, they re-used the footage from "saving Emperor Vespasian " , when they had done so well with later period equipment. I will not be buying the DVD.

Indeed , I percieve a many layered eulogising of (not just ) the fertility and potentiation of the actual "noisy fermentation" , rather a greater , universal quickening and fecundity.

Who can say , the internet supports DEPRAVITY and LEWDNESS on a colossal scale . We need a return to the Virtues of the Republic! :drunk: You'd never catch me visiting such a den of VICE and AEGYPTIAN EFFEMINACY! :angel:

:drunk: The author of the article seems to have a familiar name.....I cant quite place it.