Pertinax

A small aside on the "idea of beauty" I suggest that symmetry of features is an enduring cross cultural motif in the human perception of "beauty", by this I do not mean that he properties of those features to be similar , only that a perceived regularity exists. Coins alas tend to give us profiles not (usually) full face portraits.

and these dear friends are II Augvsta : http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...=si&img=998 the weights and instruments were the work of the sadly missed John Davis (who I lament in my blog entry) , if anyone can throw light on the terminology it would be appreciated.

GO is in Zappa/Beefheart mode again I see. Quite a digression betwixt the "christian" festival of smug kissing and teddy bears versus being scourged by naked drunken persons in the hope of encouraging fertility (and lustful engorgment) .As usual I see why Christianity is not quite as exciting as Paganism. I believe the festival did get rather out of hand in late Republican times, that a certain lustfulness overtook the solemn rites. Nephele , a small fluffy spaniel would be quite sufficient, no need to disembowel the saluki.

Tomorrow we have the Christian "festival" of Valentine's Day. I suppose I should say media-marketing frenzy. The origin of the day is in the honouring of Lupercus, He who guarded the shepherd and his flocks from the commonplace wolves that inhabited the early Republican countryside, the festival being timed for the birth of early lambs.Meantime Juno as Juno Februarte was receiving homage as a promoter of romantic assignations, by way of the drawing of lots with the name of a suitable female persons.... The suppression of these two heathenish rites in the Christian era required a substitution of persons and festivities , the rather elemental Lupercalia (by virtue of its coincidental timing with a more sentimental ceremony ) was neatly submerged by the practice of drawing (at random) the name of a Christian saint (avoiding St Jesus as Northern Neil foolishly failed to do as new Governor of Homuncvlvm), and "emulating" the virtues of that saint for a whole year . No wonder that didnt catch on. Later we have a transmutation back to the Junoesque ceremony as the Holy Catholic Church was unable to deflect its flock from productive carnality. There are several potential Saint Valentine's , does anyone have a clue as to who might be the "best fit" for the re-branded festival?

If Phonecian/Celtiberian trade interplay was as sophisticated as we sometimes suspect in our discussions , then the President could well be Phonecian-Welsh anyway. Cardiff is well known in the present day for its polyglot ethnicity.Who can say, a passing Phonecian tin buyer might not have popped over to check out the mehnir trade and taken a fancy to Catherine Zeta Jones's ancestress?

Here is the pocket calculator: http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...=si&img=907

DC you are hoary with years, so to speak, many happy returns.

I can see you , you are indeed manifest and present in cyber person bloghood. We must all feel a warm glow of nicety, after reading your charming paeon of praise to the site.

and..looping back to GO's post regarding the presence of hemp as a suggested relaxant, this outtake from a pm by Pantagathus gives us a clue as to the presence of the material in abundant quantities: "from Moschion writing about Hiero of Syracuse's ships: "for cordage, esparto grass from Spain and hemp and pitch from the Rhone valley"I think you'll find the esparto - hemp combo mentioned in Polybius as well". Thanks for that Pantagathus.

Hamata may have small particles of armour (and rust) dragged into a wound area by projectile impact ( a punch wound), this is much less likely with segmentata. Hamata is very heavy, like wearing an overcoat with lead weights in the pockets , and rusts quickly unless cleaned meticulously or soaked in olive oil . Segmentata is light and very fluid allowing full body rotation, it does get very hot in direct sunlight . The possibility of penetration of segmentata is much less than hamata , but it takes quite a while to get on, hamata just drops on like a vest. Carrying a shield and wearing greaves gives an awful lot of protection regardless of armour type.

Im trying to get some collyrium images sourced , but that might be tricky. I will post if I get a lead. The use of makeup cross gender is interesting , given that we have a society where Judaeo-Christian notions of body shame are absent (certainly in the late Republican era at the very least) and modern "definitions" of sexuality are absent this would be worth some study.The use of cosmetics in other cultures and historical epochs certainly informs us that women were not the sole users of such items The chemical make up of grooming products and any magical/medicinal virtues would likewise be an interesting area.

Seriousness is not a problem, but we have to have a definitive relevance to Rome. The subjectivity of belief is to an individuals conscience , but an appropriateness to historical discussion is needed otherwise the Forum will be skewed to non-Roman items in the Hora Postillia . The HP is a useful and diverting area , but it is perhaps the tail rather than the dog.

I was pondering on antimony as an "eye shadow" in the Roman world , I have mentioned previously that a lot of this supposed antimony was actually charred frankinscence in a fat base (lard/olive oil) so that this very toxic product was not in as common a usage as widely supposed. Anything placed around the eye socket is drawn into the body very readily, mainly because of a lack of subcutaenoeus fat in this area, so it would in fact be a good way to poison someone . This is why I am very much opposed to parabens, lauryth sulphate and other stabilising chemicals in grooming products, they generally pollute the body and have a direct route in certain areas (eye, armpit, groin). Whale fat or lard would be just fine id say! Actually I wonder if we should have a look at Roman cosmetics and vanity products , I dont think weve explored that area much.

Correct, the commonest cause is direct bacterial infection of the eye, I have seen it provoked by stress and ( in a context relevant to Rome) exposure to harvested crops (possibly a combination of physical irritation, bacterial spores liberated into the air or fungal parasites of some crops) . At Vindolanda the contagion was given sufficient respect as to have infected men quarantined from other wounded or sick men. The stamps were used to impress the vendors name on a semi solidified block of patent medicine, a modern suggestion as to appearence would be something like a block of pears soap or perhaps a bar of beeswax.They are known as collyrium stamps , they are not for eye salves alone but a majority of finds are eye related.The majority of finds are skewed to the NW of the Empire and seem to be lacking elsewhere. The stamps are suggested to be of military origin (ie: a standard product getting an accredited identity).Another theory relates to the heavy number of finds in Britain indicating a different medical setup in that province, that Doctors formed urban collegia and sent out branded goods via representatives to outlying areas. Not too long since this item: http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h...ficial%26sa%3DG Petit's eye salve was on sale in the US! A nice morphine salve.And a quick look at Amazon shows 1170 eye products available today (for vanity /anti-ageing /"medicinal" use), I wonder if the Urban trade had a vanity component?

Why were they so desired in the ancient world? Was it the same reason Visene is popular today (simple dry eyes) or was there some other reason? (a common eye ailment for instance? or a "quack cure all"?) and how was it used? (I know eyedrops are pretty easy, but I can't imagine it would be easy trying to use an actual salve in your eye.) The problem here is a common one in terms of surviving evidence (in a robust form) versus absence of evidence of plausibly related items. If I refer back to Cruse on "Roman Medicine" (in Britain particularly) , the finds of eye salve "stamps"( the vendor/physicians "branding") is quite well documented, and seems to give evidence of a widespread itinerant trade overlapping general urban usage. The stamps are small, tough discrete items, and like coinage would tend to survive where larger or perishable items would vanish. Certainly conjunctivitis seems to have been widespread, it is of course highly contagious and a military unit in barracks would be a susceptible host population. A lack of vitamin C and B in the diet would exacerbate the situation , setting the scene , like scurvy to undermine general health. Vitamin B2 is the specific missing link when the eyes become dry and uncomfortable (as though having grit in them) , the most direct source would be offal meats (liver/kidneys).One can imagine a reduced fresh food intake in winter in remote provinces. I could suggest several herbs that might help the eye that were in common use in the Roman world, as a wash of course, but for portability a salve suggests itself as more appropriate . If a vendor were itinerant then one might feel his stock would be of salves rather than bulkier liquids. However, that the eye salve stamps survive and other medicinal ephemera do not , doesnt mean that the salves were an especially important trade ,only that we have no other hard evidence for other "specialisms". Nowadays people still happily squirt drops into their eyes without thought, anything put onto the eye can (to a greater or lesser degree) affect the lens by osmosis into the eyeball. As to quackery ,then and now , I suggest the age old pareto distribution of experienced and authentic physicians ( in any type of medicinal discipline plant or chemical) 20/80 good to ineffective. http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/e/eyebri20.html

Quite. Discussing how a Deity impinged upon the Roman world, or how a deity was commonly perceived within that milieu is acceptable .Extrapolating ideas and dogma into the modern era is a step too far.. I think it best to repeat a suggestion I made in the recent offending thread, if commenting on textual matters (ie: a "sacred" text, a commentary on such a text) it would be much better to give a specific reference to give cogency to any post you make .Just to post "opinions" regarding a text in some broad brush manner is lazy and gives no focus to any sort of useful historical debate. I think all mods will be watching threads for "dogma derailment" of this nature, with a sterner eye henceforward.

It doesn't mean they smoked it. A cargo destined for medecinal use? How do they know it was used to calm the sailors? Seems a bit strange, because rowers and lookouts aren't going to give their best if they're feeling overly relaxed! There's no supportive evidence as far as I'm aware for drug use aboard roman vessels. One would anticipate that a vigorous cardiac stimulant would be more helpful in this situation. The cannabaciae make an excellent eye wash (as an infusion), and we know that eye salves were a most sought after patent medicine in the Roman world.Was this supposed to be a fighting vessel , because if so (given the nature of vesel construction and usage ) we might anticipate no significant cargo only usable materials and supplies? Pantagathus might have some information on commonplace ropemaking? The price of honey ran on a sliding scale (like olive oil) so it seems that a hierarchy of desired taste and efficacy existed.Ill have to delve further for specific use as a prescribed medicine.

How odd, I am making my "Roman Bread" with a local borage honey, it has a very pleasant taste has it not? The medicinal virtue of the plant resides in its ability to 1. reduce in situ sebaceous growths 2. reduce prostaic swelling and 3. act as a psycho-active hallucogen when added to a fermented mead , hence the Brythonic usage as a pre-combat inebriant.

Im sorry Chaps I was looking the other way, Happy Birthday!

My initial observation is that honey farmers planted many types of fragrant tree/shrub/plant to give specific savour (and mixed fragrance) to the product. Faas (Around The Roman Table) cites oregano,poppy, saffron,ivy and clovers as the Lme,peach , almond and oak are attested likewise. Honey from vegetable dominated holdings was considered inferior.Var RR II speaks of "the fig supplies poor honey, a good quality comes from alfalfa [multi mineral fixative] and the best from Thyme". Andrew Dalby ( Empire of Pleasures) mentions the excellence of the thyme flavourd Grecian honey supplied to Rome from Hymettium.As a counter to this Corsican honey is mentioned for its biterness (wether due to hemlock or box he demures to say).I think AD may wish to speak for himself though... So the infusion was "in the pre-packaging stage".

GO can you give me a link for this at all? I would have expected Datura stramonium as the likeliest N African recreational relaxant . http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...=si&img=180

Perhaps Horace wrote the catchy tunes- so, all that "lonely goatherd " stuff makes sense now. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,...2583090,00.html

More news from the hard partying Brythonics: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,...2583090,00.html