Pertinax

The range of Hemlock is the whole of Europe and Northern Asia , as ive mentioned previously , the closer to the Nile -the stronger the active principle of the plant. So yes we can have the same plant in Britain and Greece, and as one requires little of the alkaloid to kill (by accident or design) the relative potency is not too relevant.

The umbelliferae are a very large group ( thats an understatement -vast), ive spent a long time annotating and photographing them. Within that group we have angelica, fennel, wild parsley and caraway( which is somewhat poisonous if not used correctly) that are culinary spices ; we also have wild carrot, pignut and giant hogweed that vary from decorative to intrusive and poisinous to livestock. We have Yarrow and elderberry great healing herbs.Then we have hemlock. They look similar- there are tell tale signs to discriminate , the worst of them (Hemlock and Oenanthe) have either purple stems or blotched stems , and smell bad when broken. I am going to publish a small paper on identification of the species, with a photographic guide , early versions will be beta tested on my msn blog. Cornell have this useful resource for a particular locality: http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h...ficial%26sa%3DG take a good look at the Water Hemlock stem colour. I will put some shots up on msn soon and pm you -leaf shape, inflorescence shape and smell all help, but if in doubt , dont eat em!

Hemlock was the poison used to execute Socrates for corrupting youth and neglecting the Gods...it contains two poisonous alkaloids coniine and coniceine (the plant is named Conium maculatum). These block the transmission of nerve impulses which cause death by failure of respiration (ie: one ceases to try to breathe). The actual execution (as described by Plato) has the executioner examining the victims legs and feet , pressing them to see if the sensation is lost in these extremities , the numbness that Socrates felt traveled slowly up his body (which became cold to touch) and as it made toward his heart he expired. http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...=si&img=854 A similar plant is Water Hemlock which contains cicutoxin (the plant is Cicuta maculatum which I have seen growing abundantly near Mediobogdum) , the root resembles a turnip and if partly ingested is fatal in at least 30 percent of cases.The action is one of violent seizures affecting the spine and brain. A further related toxin is nicotine from tobacco.This is very similar to coniine and it is the essential addictive element that draws smokers.In sensory terms the initial ingestion causes euphoria and nerve stimulation, thence desensitisation and depression.The leaves were originally "tobago" possibly first found by Columbus and brought by Raleigh from America to England.Nicotine is from the name Jean Nicot de Villemain an explore who sent seeds of the plant back to Europe in the 16th C.Nicotine is very toxic and can be used as a potent insecticide , indeed two drops of the pure substance dropped on to a small mammals tongue (a dog for example ) will kill outright.So an addiction to nicotine is actually related to the ingestion of the Athenian state poison . Of course the Roman soldier in Africa and the Syrian provinces might well have known this plant as anaesthesia and recreational adjunct: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimsonweed ref Timbrell "The Poison Paradox".

eh ? when ? where ? any source ? I suggest that this is a reference to Simony, (the marketing of "Holy Relics" ) as suggested here: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14001a.htm the "true cross" and its fragments being a very marketable commodity.

Perhaps this might be pulled away into a new thread , but for a work which tries to give veracity to an historical event this film still electrifies:This is as regards Culloden http://www.screenonline.org.uk/tv/id/520802/index.html I do not know if it is available in the US. This is perhaps the antidote to the film we are discussing , shot on a budget of zilch .I recommend this work wholeheartedly if you can get a copy.

He might be granted his freedom via manumission .The relationship with his former master became then one of Patron/client with expected "respect" and reciprocal protection (the concept may be familiar in other Italian inter-communal relationships?), the freedman would tend to be a person having had a close working (or "personal") relationship with his master or a valued well placed worker (say a bailiff for example).The legal status was Latin Right (ie : no vote , but he protection of the law). ps: im not sure if the metic "resident alien" concept is valid beyond the attic world into the early Republican era.

The thread provoked me to look at issues of mental illness, and apparent personality disorders in relation to known medicaments at this time. Had GJC been given medication for his epilepsy the balance of probabilities suggest the following as "cooling" drugs (so enumerated by Galen at a later time , but referenced to earlier Hippocratic work): poppy, henbane, mandrake and hemlock. From my blog entries you may note that the possibility of altered behaviour (if administered unwisely) is not impossible with any of these medicaments. So I do not wish to infer that the Divine One was a dope fiend , but the extant conventional medication would need to have been controllled with care.

This drew a tiiter from me, as it has its modern day equivelent: the homes of previously impoverished lottery winners and premiership footballers. Prior to Caracalla, I suppose freedmen could join the Auxilia and become citizens that way. After Caracalla, their citizenship came in tandem with their new free status. I actually thought "Footballer's Wives" as I wrote the sentence. It seems to resonate down the ages, the vulgarity of the nouveau contrasted with the studied restraint of the patrician . Micheal Heseltine's stinging put down of a junior minister "He is the sort of person who bought all his own furniture" (an Englishman of elevated class (though rich or poor) would of course inherit furniture, never buy it) would transpose directly into Juvenal's writing.

"If anyone does not believe in Venus, they should gaze at my girl friend" (graffitti , atrium of the House of Pinarius , Pompeii): if only he'd left a sketch for us! Perhaps he did..... Though I do note this : "Suspirium puellarum Celadus thraex"( from the Gladiatorial Barracks, Pompeii).So we know Celadus the hulking Thracian Gladiator was favoured by the Babes of Pompeii. Might we suspect that a sporting physique admixed with a tinge of physical danger has always been attractive?

The liberti were given the "Latin Right" , but there freeborn children became full citizens. Within the Republic their status was subject to change and de-restriction (over time). Within the Empire many became a by-word for vulgar materialism, the House of the Vetii (Pompeii) gives an idea of the nature of the material aspiration of the showier person of this class. This does not mean that they failed to fulfill useful tasks, a large percentage of Civil Servants were Freedmen , but Juvenal in particular was keen to satirise their social foibles.

On balance I have to vote 3, its the tantalising "were they just like us , or totally different , in confidence , directness and emotional life"? That doesnt mean I discount many other facets , but its the idea of a culture separate in time, but possibly near in psyche.

Whoah! 19 I remember that age. Manny Happy Returns

Here is one of that Gladiatorial Stable on tour last year: http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...=si&img=921

Gaius of the Julii, known as Caesar- at the time , Caesar being the least formal of the namings. The Augusta has logic here. After all we know who ruled in actuality, and when.

Does your colleague have any suggested reading on vetrenarian skills or medication in regards to this topic please?

Does anyone have a useful link or title regarding the "Ala Noricum" , I realise I am placing a "germanic" title perhaps a little too far south?

Saturn is , as I mention , associated with those plants that induce drowsiness and (possibly) melancholia, but several deities have "dangerous" plants associated with them , for instance some herbs associated with Venus are not lightweight infusions for young lovers , rather they suggest potions for unrequited and disturbingly obsessive desire and lustfulness. This is insultingly simplistic , but gives you an idea of an ancient science/religiosity/superstition melding: http://www.anniesremedy.com/astrology.php One can see the obvious relationships-Ladies Mantle is still used to get a clean purge of the endemetrium , and we see it under Venus in a direct sexual role .Chickweed, used for skin problems (being awash with vitamin C in an ingestible external form) under the cooling Lunar influence. This is just a hint of a lost world view .Ive left the text I need to quote from at work, so ill be back to you on the nature of poisons versus sympathetic magic. Christian Saints are not my forte...

BUMP a bump to the thread, heads up in Brittania I will be pming on an industrial scale soon to check on numbers attending and to give an outline itinerary.

If one can purchase a facsimilie of the original Culpepper's Herbal , all the herbs have a definitive plant/deity relationship which harks directly to the pagan world, for example our old friends Henbane and Nightshade are "saturnian" (well called id say). A titular deity is always named as presiding over the behaviour of the plant, this information was gradually expunged from the revised editions. Interestingly one can see more of the Anglo-Saxon world than a direct link to the classical world, though an undertone of antiquity is present. I have several variants of the texts , but all are incomplete in some way (though physically the work is very large), I was re-checking a particular variant the other day (badly illustrated , but with the best surviving "astrological" exposition). Culpepper was totally immersed in the spiritual qualities of the plants and it is unfortunate that we cannot see his whole work as he sought to present it, regardless that we may consider it "unscientific", we see the "science" of the day clearly spelt out. http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/mgmh.html here is the mid-thirties re-issue for the "modern" .These volumes are straightforward botanical texts.

I find it difficult to imagine art divorced from the engine of patronage, therefore I pose the question 'If a painter has no "influence" does he/she not aspire to influence by producing work which reflects a set of social mores (and brings in fees as a plaudit)?" The social mores being expressed in all arts in a continually altering manner, but I venture to suggest that whatever was the fashion for a ruling elite (from Tyrant to meritocracy, through time and space) would be the most difficult appearence and behaviour to emulate without the consumption of scarce resources. The history of the suntan as a social signifier perhaps hints at this, Voltaire is dismissive of Candide's beloved when she is "burnt black by the sun" as this signifies her as a peasant, whereas a "careful housewife" would seek to have a milky white skin to show her non-participation in manual tasks: when mass Industrialisation produced a nation of starch fed milk bottle coloured factory workers those of greater means developed tans to display the wealth required to travel , (setting aside any Freudian hints as regards sexual display): when cheap package holidays and sunbeds mean the oiks can tan at will, then a discrete light tan on a thin body becomes the subtler signifier of class. Clothing and hair arrangement are startlingly revealed in Elizabethen work, the time consuming pressing and starching of ruffs as a signifier of rank, to say nothing of the occupation of a great deal of social space by a person of rank wearing a multi layered dress. I also believe Cleopatra has been re-incarnated as Mr Ian Dowie: http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h...ficial%26sa%3DN

I think you have to be careful not to click on a city if you are after the province it is within.

FQ do you have a suggestion as to the method of poisoning please , either to quote or link?

Remember this posting? http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...=si&img=955 Here is the same Primus Pilus in full regalia-the greaves are plain!

LW here is a shot of the LEG II AVG Primus Pilus arming up: http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...si&img=1549 definitely no felt or cloth layers on this occasion. As I say in the caption , in hot weather the armour is scalding hot wherever the sun touches .