Pertinax

The latter are of course now favoured holiday destinations for Brittanic natives.

Are you being quite truthful?

were there any particular sites favoured for that type of exile?

Once again I can see both sides of the argument,I think id suggest that the Legions responded most of all to fair and charismatic leadership (as do most troops) but being so technologically superior to many enemies and having a killing capacity of such fearsome proprtions that if motivated they would (as they often did) destroy much larger enemy forces.

Can I disagree on the psycho front? One lesson learned from Kendo training is that the violent and indisciplined struggle to learn any meaningful fighting techniques as they cannot control themselves, and they dont last too long if faced with a person who has command of technique. The Legions relied on men acting in accord and with pre-determined strategy, witness Caeser commenting on his men not wasting time by going to their own standards but moving behind the nearest standard when suddenly surprised.( Ill try and find the full reference )later. I also note one or two examples of extreme fire discipline , the opposing veteran Legions at Forum Gallorum raised no war cry knowing it would not terrify their veteran opponents(Appian: Civil War);at Pharsalus Pompey told his men to hold position and await attack to reduce the impetus of Caeser's attack,Ceaser's men spontaneously checked their charge so as not to waste energy in the first assault. I can understand men cracking with pent up fury battle stress and cutting down fleeing enemies, time and again this is the fatal episode in many ancient (and modern) battles and seems to be an imprinted reflex to destroy when the enemy turns his back in combat. I can also see that there is nothing deadlier than disciplined and hardened troops let off the leash, the Icenii casualties were unbelievable,including oxen cut down in their traces never mind the camp followers whod turned up to watch the show. I also have a reference to the British Legions "singing their victory hymm". Rambled on again and the prospect of booty-before facing the Icenii the Romans were exhorted not to think of booty because if they triumphed "all would be theirs"

I think discussing Rome and trying to be as objective as possible makes us all think hard about our present day circumstances-perhaps the topic should be in the lounge area.

Occipital nerve has to be chopped through -if you recall our friend Maximus asking for a "clean death" thats about the spot an assasin would make for.

Damnate Memoria? is that the correct spelling?

Yes if you were a respectable person you considered it vulgar to watch the mid-day executions, though again I recall one Emperor deliberatley watched to show that he was concerned that justice be seen to be done by him as the highest authority.(Claudius?)

I understand that consciousness is said to continue for up to 15 seconds after total decapitation.

Pertinax because im stubborn.

I have to go with Tacitus because he is so vivid.

Salve! I overlooked my civic responsibilities by not noticing this thread. I found the site by chance looking for information on Stoic literature. I am fascinated by Rome and its relevance to contemparary life in all its manifestations. I see a good mix of scholarship, wit and opinion. I live in the North of England . I add that I fell under the spell of Rome when I first visited Housesteads Fort many years ago and my interest has been vigorously rekindled by several visits to Pompeii and Herculaneum.

I f I remember rightly some of Varus's commanders "prefered death by torture" than to give fight inthe Teuteborger debacle. If Rome was as grizly as we have read what on earth did the Germans get up to?

Thank you Lacertus. Returning to Longbows remarks about the Danes I carry an anglicised Irish surname but my DNA is in the "Norse Dublin Viking" group. My surname is a clue as well as its origin can in one sense be "son of the champion or axe wielding barbarian". I presume the Celts blood now would be mostly amongst the Welsh, Cornish and Bretons. So do I get a job as a Varangian Guard in Byzantium on this pedigree?

My words were not to damm America or my own Country and certainly not to ignore the barbarism of other hectoring cultures whose behaviour is reminiscent of the Dark Ages,rather as a commentary on cycles of decadence and reinvigoration of nations.No offence taken by the way , my style of writing has always been a bit cryptic. Speaking "from among the Brigantes" I am amused and bemused that my Countrymen and Women seem to be of such a ferociously hard partying bunch of loons after 2000 years. Brittania as a province was abandoned hastily to allow the defence of other parts of the Imperium, it had the unfortunate charachteristic of being useful for metal extraction and some grains but in its remoter corners a sufeit of tribal warriors but no real exploitable resources. Perhaps a longer Imperial interlude would have changed the nature of the land. I forgot to answer Favonius -no I did not play Imperium previously.

Id like to try my own job to see if there is much difference in materia medica or the emotional and physical problems of the patients-medical herbalist. I think id pop in and visit Hamilcar in pre79 ad pompeii and check out the bars .

I also suggest that Empire meant (as in Victorian times) not "bad" ie: colonising but "good" as in moral obligation of the civilised to impose law and order over chaos and misery, the Roman version of that imperative being perhaps more secular than the apparent "muscular Christianity" of Victorian England .

from whom is the quote" the Celts have not founded a nation but have shaken many"? Id also add "nationalism is the seed bed of fascism" Cant remember who said that either. I also have to add "Industrialisation has saved us from rural idiocy", Marx (not my favourite person ) but a snide and acute observation of peasant and tribal societies.

I see that the Queen has taken care to have her image shown with rolls of abdominal fat- a sign of great wealth and stability in that time and place.

I cant stop now ive started! I was struck by Julius Ceasers disdainful description of the the native Britons as basically a bunch of wild ,drunken ,smelly, fornicating oiks bearing children promiscuosly with any woman available. So perhaps we are quite like our ancestors in Brittania? So if the USA is the Imperium perhaps we are unchanged by the passage of histor. note: if you are non-British the word "oik" may be problematic,I suggest the Roman word "prole" as a possible substitute thogh it has a more urban flavour, oik could be any town or country dweller of rough , coarse or vulgar nature.

Varus for throwing away the "best of armies". Commodus brought many years of proficient stability to a chaotic ending by staying at home and partying. May I as a small aside mention the book "on the psychology of Military Incompetence" -Dixon: mostly modern era but useful reading for students of war and generalship.If you work in any large organisation of any type its worth reading to identify your Boss and his weird behaviour traits.

excellent link, almost faultlessly accurate.

I answer my own question-Octavian was in favour of a functioning senate!

Lancashire- near Ribchester (Bremetanacum Veteranorum) and Castercliffe, often seen in Ravenglass (Glannoventa).