Pertinax

I found another reference that was at the back of my mind -Tacitus cites a statute whereby the guilty party must be exiled by a distance of 200 miles from Rome as related in one of the early traeson trials of Tiberius (Annals)

Well I said I would search out a crab recipe but alas other shelfish are named but not the humble crab. However I did find an interesting recipe for Moray Eel... A "Piscina" in Roman times was a fishpond not a swimming pool -you would not bathe in a piscina because some ponds contained the ferocious moray eel. Faas tells us that Gaius Hirrius was the first to develop special Moray piscina,supplying 6000 eels for Julius Caesar's triumphal banqets : he gave then for free expecting nothing in return (ironic modern smirk here ) The orator Hortensius had a pond containing an animal he so loved that it is said he wept when it passed away. Antonia the wife of Drusus had a favourite Moray which was bedecked with ear-rings,the creature being very famous and drawing large crowds to view it (hmm..sounds like Big Brother TV). It was said that the Moray wasa most delicious if it had been fed upon human flesh, though Pollo who claimed this ate only the liver of the animal. and the recipe (once youve taken the jewellery off)... Clean and remove fins as you would with other fish but leave the head.Skin the animal from the rear of the head.Attach body to spit in a zigg zagg,barbecue. the sauce: 2 prunes ,4 glasses red wine , 1tbsp garum (fish relish-like anchovy paste but stronger), a dash of mulusum( honeied wine) 1tbsp defractum(must syrup-a bad source of lead poisoning from its preparation in lead pans)1 tsp peppercorns and an onion.--blend all ingridients after soaking prunes for 24 hours , heat over a slow light ,reduce to a viscous paste , glaze the barbecuing fish. Your scissor slave will carve the beast for your guests ( note for Barbarians-small child slaves will clamber over your legs to give you your food ,do not kick them if they spill things: they are generally more nimble than adults but not as well co-ordinated) Eh le voila! You can still get Moray in Napoli. recipe courtesy Patrick Faas.(2003).

Excellent-nutritious and spicey! I shall look for a recipe

incendiary weapons also tend to bring death to any captured operatives very swifly

In Britain now we regularly get sales calls from the US -amusingly they think our business is some sort of corporation with divisional heads, unfortunatley for them we have one member of staf who is capable of sustaining a ludicrous conversation for several minutes before producing ghastly punchlines eg: " its quite a bad time for you to ring regarding these investments as Mr S'****n the owner was savaged by a turbot on holiday in the Maldives" . I kid you not .

well Rubicon has still not arrived on my desk, however the Miichael Grant translation of Tacitus has . I think I first read this book 35 years ago so I will see if reaquaintance is as good as anticipated , the only difficulty I see ahead is when Rome- Total War arrives and the intellect will take second place to campaigning through Gaul.

Collective shame and strict disipline would I suppose be the things that allowed decimation, broken troops might be rounded up by other units without their arms of course ,I presume deserters would have been executed or enslaved rather than subjected to a "purging" disicipline.

Good stuff Onasnader-if I remember rightly during the Vietnam conflict the USA lost more people in car accidents than combat fatalities? I also seem to remember a considerable proportion of US casualties were "accidents" relating to air and road traffic and regrettably friendly fire casualties. Again I wish id kept better notes of the paper I read but the essence was,the most dangerous age/sex cohort to be around is young males 18-25 ish: so if you then put this group near big pieces of machinery and weapons you are going to get "attrition" as a matter of course. This isnt to denigrate the level of training recieved but to point out that a lot of troops are tactical or specialists not neccesarily combat dedicated and may just as well drive a truck offf a road as inadvertently loose a clip off into someones leg.

so this is very much like Tony Benn only using his "ordinary " name to appear on"normal" in the labour party rather than his landed title .

Not bad- a few light hearted rejoinders in no particular order: They certainly did eat the dormouse with enthusiasm and gusto,if members insist I will post a couple of recipes so the Matron of the House can instruct the cooks as to latest fashions. On the other hand they were even keener on meat from animals killed in the ring (especially by other animals-believing the meat was "tenderised" by "electricity" from the teeth of a predator). Elephants trunk was much sought after ,it tasted lousy but it was craved because its cost was "like eating rare ivory". The posture on the triclinium was also the posture in which the dead were buried and is aped in funerary monuments through the ages:peristalsis works even if you are upside down though sauces are a problem,sitting at a table was an Etruscan habit (if I recall properly) so the Romans were keen to emphasise they were different .Sitting around a table in a group and using both hands to eat was just gross barbarian stupidity. In Gladiator, Ridley Scott was keen not to have his plotting senators "eating grapes" and made a passable attempt at a sidewalk cafe. Vomitoriums:this is tricky -many seemed to enjoy gluttony,what better way to display conspicuos consumption in the midst of subsistence than by being fat? (non -ironic comment) For claims that foods were actually cooked in the residue of the vomitorium (as has been claimed) I have never seen any hint in literature over many years of study. I cant recall any eating scenes in "Caligula" they were probably obscured by the next orgy,or beheading/stabbing but I believe that particular film proves my theory that any film wishing to be pilloried for inauthenticity must contain at least 3 major classicaly trained British actors in lead roles spouting mockshakespeare.

and that "working through others" is the very thing that put the word "byzantine" into the english language as a term for subterfuge and cunning -after the works of the Eastern Empire in later times

Its ordered!

AMD Athlon 64 proccessor 3200+,250 ghz , 512 RAM ( XP home edition) , about 18 months old. What do the experts think?

Interesting the other shows you named Plautus as reviewers I have read prior to seeing the series have commented that The Sopranos is actually Roman dynastic power politics in contemporary dress.

You will all laugh at this question-I stopped gaming ages ago,I enjoyed Shogun but I just felt it could have been better, I really liked all the various Dune games and played through all the Cand C games-so should I buy Rome Total War? Does it kick all these into a bucket?

and I forgot-seigecraft! Actually the medical care is not just combat medicine ,as has been said before ancient armies were travelling reserves of disease and ill health bringing illness to enemies and re-importing it to home terrotories.The Assyrians took great care to make sure troops were fit and healthy at all times,likewise Roman troops so far as was possible, received a more stable diet than the civilian poulation. (The major secondary assyrian innovations were breeding of cavalry mounts and horse archers-after the jackboot for all weather campaigning). An ancient army kept in the field for any length of time was ground away by actual combat, lack of rations and inherent morbidity from insanitary conditions and the close press of numbers.

I think Scott did a great job-I dont think it does any harm to "re-imagine" things or situations because that in effect is the way of interpreting the reality of the past into ideas and signs that "modern" people can understand.I am looking forward to seeing the "Rome " series from this wednesday onward.

considerably further! I suppose the big problem with Caledonia was other than stopping the natives causing trouble by raiding there were no useful resources to make a push northward of any real use.A roman fleet checked out the Hebrides but I have no source saying they found anything to write home about. (except picts). The real issues in Britannia were I believe the metal resources and grain.

In fact the Romans appear to be unsurpassed in killing power till the machine gun: medevac and combat survivabilitytill the end of WW2: staff organisation till WW2 and still superior to many present day armies : tactical flexibility till recent times (vietnam) and longevity as an effective combat force. which is an awesome list,hand it to the assyrians though they were pretty good logistically as well

Thats sensible ,I thought I was mis -reading the control panel.

am I being dim here -can I upload to the gallery as a pleb?

I assume that many members will have seen the "extended" version but here goes anyway: I agree that this film is a "spectacle" as many suggest and we are in essence off to the Circus to be entertained by noise and thunder. Scotts commentary is wry and amusing he tells us that the film is perhaps more a comment on contemporary Los Angeles than Imperial Rome-positing the question "if a spectacle of cruelty were made a lawful entertainment just how would "modern " people react-disgust ,shame, pre-booked seats for a full season of death? I know this is a little unfair as Gladiatorial games had a different message about turning and examining death in public and the role of the "outcast" in relation to the hard won civilising Pax Romana-nevertheless they were also crude and bloody spectacle. There are additional scenes of political plotting which give more narrative strength, but the extra discs give much that is interesting to the Romanophile:notes on costume, weapons (actual and "re-imagined") ,and of course production notes and storyboard.The cgi battle scene documentary will be of interest to gamers. I liked this film a great deal, Scott has made a glossy entertainment out of grit and dust,his imagining of Roman behaviour is not mean spirited and the abscence of theatrical dialogue is a real blessing. The battle scene has its detractors but one moment gave me a greater insight into legionnary fighting than a hundred books,namely when the front rankers raised their heads in total unison from behind locked shields after the barbarian arrow storm- the impression was of a deadly,disciplined force that must have been a dread to face with its implacable drilled response to battle.The other obvious comment is the technological superiority and killing capability of the Roman forces over tribal foes. Bit too much slashing with the Gladius and not enough pilae.

would members care for a brief review of the "3 disc" -extended version and commentaries or is this topic bound for Elysium?

I dont think ive seen that one at ll -ill check on amazon ,thanks for the info.

Yes it does-though the book I had in mind wasnt in atlas form-nevertheless I think youve given me a point to start searching from .