Pertinax

Yeah, the same Greek Orthodox Church that doesn't want Pagans to perform rituals at the Parthenon. and thinks the Elgin marbles are pagan idolatory

the intransigence of Judaism and Christianity seem very congruent.

Suicide was honourable , especially in a military context-its an overworked analogy -but in relation to Samurai honour codes, to take one's own life rather than succumb to an enemy( in "unprofitable" circumstances) was irreproachable , this is in the context of a martial engagement where surrendur would be a possibility -the Jewish revolt is a very good example , I cannot remember the specified incident but there is a very notable example of a a public suicide of a valarous Roman soldier seen by Jewish and Roman combatants alike ( I will search it out). This was esteemed a most proper and appropriate action. Personally I wish to say this seems not inappropriate-a clean death buy one's own hand as a gesture of defiance? How morally frustrating to an enemy.

This may be a "divergent " post ,but we know of the textual interweaving of Yahwist and Elohimist texts in genesis -how were these deities differentiated ( at that time )? In doctrine would the Jews separate the two totally and would the Romans understand the difference? Nowadays ,textually , we have conflation can anyone give some "route maps " for the historical reality?

Much Christian iconography has been preserved in the Hagia -The Sultans were aware that they were "Emperors of Rome" -AD will know more but I understood that very wording was part of the Sultans title.The historical continuity was known and embraced regardless of the change of religious focus-something rather more unlikely today .

the term "fire discipline" rears its head again as well-the ability NOT to act in situations of great stress when the fight or flight response is screaming to kick in. The next step is to act in concert or to a predetermined drill of co-ordinated arms to maximise lethality ("whites of their eyes" to be visible) . I also suggest that the Roman Cavalry had another role ,that of tightly coursing a battlefield after an enemy had been put to flight to further maximise fatalities-not the same thing as a headlong chase after someones baggage and worldly goods. I dont suggest plunder wasnt a factor , but I suggest plunder "after the fact".

A small thing that struck me about this thread was the museum finds I have seen-as you know many warrior cultures (those tending to be based on conspicuos bravery and bravado) emphasise long hair and the thorough grooming of it. The Scythians seem to have been great mirror users and hair combers as attested by the abundance of grave goods , grooming implements being inhumed along with weapons. The Japanese were always assiduous in the care of the hair ,especially prior to combat. In Roman artefact collections I see many strigils, shears and ointment jars but no mirrors except those attested to womens quarters.

The amusing quip on Boris Johnson's "Dreams of Rome " (BBc screening) was that the baths as the apex of the Roman "brand" were all about depilation. In went Gauls with long hair and moustachios (and a great deal of barbarian body hair) out came clean shaven ,smooth limbed "citizens". Certainly as was stated in that documentary we find an "epidemic of tweezers" as a concommitant to the establishment of the forum/baths/colosseum as the identifiable focii of a romanised city.This tends to suggest squaddies would have to get a haircut to conform to a roman image -and from a practical viewpoint as little hair as possible helps when you have to wear a close fitting helmet .In fairness beards were very fashionable at the time of Marcus Aurelius ! Dont take this as gospel -I thought the argument was at least persuasive, given the Roman love of a good steam bath.

I get site withdrawal trauma each time we have outage.

As long as Mercurius is not vexed, and the Good Lady. Still no ales dedicated to the deities-I thought perhaps Lugh( who was greatly conflated with Mercury) might have a gruit for his special usage.Dea Fortuna must surely have a wholesome cereal based ale with perhaps some mountain herbs from the Apennines .