Zeke

Immortal Gods.......that is thee longest post ever made by someone on these forums! Zeke

Hail Octavian kin of Venus and founder of Imperium, may you live on forever in our hearts and mines! Zeke

There are many beautiful cities on Earth today but back in 1400 A.D the cities that existed were considered to best of their day. In my opinion this is a turning point in the history of human construction because gradually everything began to be built not out of beauty but out of convience. Latter on in the 1800's cities were no longer built out of forced slave labour or human craftmen but industrial macheinery. Their became more steel buildings that were considered "Beautiful." But in my opinion in the 1400s is the point where the most beautiful cities existed on Earth because craftmen's and builders dilbertly wanted to make their creations beautiful. Now-a-days I think it's safe to say that men no longer think of beauty in cities (unless their rich and have money) but as cities as meeting centers and a place to get job enmployment. Paris is still beautiful of coarse....but it much more marvellous back in the day. At least thats my opinion Anyway what in your opinion was the most beautiful city on Earth in 1400?? Zeke

Theodoius the Great.......he banned Paganism and helped hasten the fall of the western Empire. He did Rome a great dis-service. Zeke

yeah thats another one of my favorite quotes as well. Zeke

In the second Century of the Christian Era, the empire of Rome comprehended the fairest part of the Earth and the most civilized portion of mankind. The frontiers of that extensive monarchy were guarded by ancient renown and displined valour. The gentle, but powerful influence of laws and manners had gradually cemented the union of the provinces. The peaceful inhabitants enjoyed and abused the advantages of wealth and luxury. The image of free constitution was preserved with decent reverence. The Roman appearded to possess the sovereign authority and devolved on the emperors all the executive powers o f goverment. Duuring a happy period of more then fourscore years, the public administration was conducted by the virtue and abilities of Nerva, Trajan, Hadrian, and the two Antonines. It is the design of this, and of the two succeeding chapters, to describe the properous condition of their empire, and afterwards, from the death of Marcus Aurelius, to deduce the most important circumstances ots it decline and fall; a revolution which will ever be remembered, and it still felt by the nations of the Earth. Introduction of Decline and fall of the Roman Empire by Sir Edward Gibbon.....It makes me tear, I just love the way he fits the words so beautifuly.....does anyone else have any good quotes from Gibbon's masterpiece??? Your favorite quote or pargrah from the books, I have several others but this seemed to be the most appropirate. Zeke

yeah I was kinda wondering.....Horonius??? Wasn't he during Alaric's sack?!?!?!?!? hhahahahahaha sorry misunderstanding! Zeke

Honorius was ill-suited to defend the falling Empire, he probably wouldn't have sent the Legions to Rome to relieve it because of two reasons: Yes I believe he was a coward and probably one of the worse emperors though he was in his youth so what can you expect? Also if he had sent the Legions that would have left Northern Italy open to attacks from the Lombards or the Franks. Honorius was still protecting his little fragmant of Rome though Rome was nothing by the time of the Vandal sack in 455 A.D. The speculation here is there is one or two reasons why Rome was sacked a second time in 455, 1. The Vandals had suppieor military tatics, (Which I doubt, 1 Legion could have crushed an army of 30,000 in a couple hours) or 2. The city was despised and lightly deffended that it was easy counquest for the invaders. I believe this is true. Nobody really cared for Rome anymore, the only thing that was there was the Pope all the REAL Legions and real goverment officials had all fled to Constatinople in the late 300s. Zeke

80,000 isn't that much if it was like 200,000, 300,000 I could call that alot lol. Zeke

I suppose not much is known about Vandal Culture in North Africa becausae what the Byzantine Troops didn't wipe out, the Muslims who came in the 5th Century did. There is very little trace of Vandal Culture in that area because it has been suppresed by Islam and the Vandals have become another "Lost tribe" so to speak of history. My assumations are that with their small population the Vandals were looking for an area that was huge in size but small in population, offered rich plunder, and a place for them to settle down with their small family units, they found that in North Africa. As with most Germanic Barbarians the Vandals came from the region where the Franks, the Lombards, the Goths and all others were from. The Vandals came after the Franks I believe and they headed into Spain. I have feeling they left Spain for two reasons: They were too small of a tribe to have any control over the large population of it and the Visigoths that were arriving were pushing them out. So they sailed across the straits of Gilbraltor and claimed all of North Africa from the borders of what is now present day Maraco to Egypt. Carthage becoming their ransack capital. Knowing that the Vandals were barbarians they may have adopted Roman Villas and togas but still kept their old way of life. The Vandals really didn't care about the "Local population" and most likely extorted them by forced labour and yearly if not monthly tirbute. The Vandal econmey was run off their excessive piracy industy and the only way it would stay active was through stealing what other people of the falling Roman Empire had already built. If the Vandals didn't engadge in piracy, they would have had a very small economic infastructure, I doubt they grew any crops to speak of, they left this hard daily toil to their African/Greek/Carthigian serfs. Their social statues was probably based around local Warlords who served their main King at Carthage. Their army was typical barbarian (huge war axes, running up and down oppnent's army screaming curses and going beserk then the classic mass charge ) except they probably flew aside their furs in favor of lighter clothing because after all Africa is hot! My impression of the Vandals is that they fit the classic criteria of what a "Good Barbarian" is suppose to be, brutal, using, a stealer and extorter. The only reason many mainstream historians mention them is because they had a fairly large territory and they did succeed in sacking Rome for the second time. They didn't esablish any sort of realm like the Franks did and when the Byzantins decided to take back North Africa their kingdom ceased to exist Zeke

His mother was somewhat of cocktail waitresss in a Roman Inn on the Danubee. I think her name was Helena, other then giving birth to Constatine she never appears in the history books. Zeke

Didn't the Celts have steel long before the Romans did? Zeke

Well......to add this conversation of Imperlism, Most historians would agree with me that the Romans unlike Hitler and Nepoleon, did not have huge grotesque maps laid out in front of them and they didn't think about counquring the world. In the begining the Romans didn't even know what was over the Alps other then a bunch of Celtic tribes. The Romans never had any intention (In the begining of coarse) of counquring people like the Carthiginians or the Greeks. If the early Republican Romans had seen their future Imperial Counterparts.....they would have stood amazed! Imperlism was the last thought on the Republican's mind.

Alot of is quite Wicca oriented. Not to have anything against the Wicca of coarse.. Zeke

Virgil.......what exacly is the point of your response, and how does it relate to Imeprlism???? Zeke

Intresting I will have to check it out, seening as how I am a "Spirtual Person" Zeke

Maybe......but so many warlords cling for power that we really can't say. Zeke

lol to point out, that those Catholic Monks kept everyone else illiterate by keeping knowledge hidden. Only 5% of the population had any sort of education. While in the early civilzations before Christianity more people got some sort of schooling. But as Ursus said this is a totally different topic so I am not going to go into it. I also don

My opinion is that their will always be Imperalism no matter how much we complain about it. So I guess I fall under camp 3, because it seem logical. I don't think "Empires" in the sense exist anymore but the world is governed by World Powers. I was once a very rigid Communist and I was anti-imperlist everything (It was a stupid phase I suppose). But now I relize that Imperlism is not neccessarily evil and corrupt. The only thing that holds are World together is Imperlism. My case: Africa...........a very messed up place in the world, you got a bunch of dictatorship type of countries there that were once under European domination. Everyone is preety hungry and disease is uncontrolable. Back when the Europeans owned the place the Africans, though basically enslaved, had slightly less strarvation and disease. Then the Africans revolt and tell the Europeans to go away and they lose all their medicene and any sort of income they might have had. Now we got the situation where the Africans want European and American aid. Yet how much aid can the Western nations give before taking over the economy and enslaving the Africans again? A puzziling pardox really, without Imperlism in some way, I highly doubt Africa will ever get out of its economic slump, the Communists tried and they failed miserbly so were going to have to trust good old Imperlistic Capitalism to solve the problem. When you get the market going people can start trading goods and getting food and vaccinations into their countries and become western. If the Imperlistic countries help Africa and the devoloping countries in Asia then those countries can then start being self sufficiant and pose a threat to the market, they can then become competive and harnass their resources to become the dominate economic power in the world. Why don't you think America doesn't help Africa that much, because if allowed to devolop, Africa could be a serious danger to the Imperlistic Nations that hold sway over the world, the United States of America being one of their leaders. Lets anylais the Imperlistic Nations, because of them the world runs properly. The United States: Oviously one of the biggest players in the world, the United States has the largest single country economy in the world. It produces the most goods and services compared to every other nation, and its military is only second to China. The United States is the initiator of most cultural trends and only but the most isolated of nations feels its influence. The United States also makes sure the markets are always open and that money is getting circulated, with out the Americaus Imperium half the world would be in dire straits, if the United States Market chrashes so does 1/3 of the world, because 1/3 of the world depends on the United States for economic stability. (ESTIMATION) The United States acts as the main military force that intervenes if it get pissed off enough. Truly we could say the United States could be the main chairman of the Oligarchy of Imperlism. The United Kingdon: Because of these chappy fellows several of the markets in the United States and several parts of the world flow properly. Because of their immense wealth, the British control almost half the banking centers in Europe and the British Pound next to the US dollar according to my assumtions, supports about 12% to 15% of the World's revenune. The United Kingdom is the United States's right hand man and her Majesty's Royal Forces will always go on a grand parade when the War Hatchet is passed around by Washigton. After the United States the United Kingdom's culture, effects alot of trends and styles in the world, and the two type of Democracies in the World: The America System and the British parlimantry system, the latter is by far the more popular because more countries use parliment systems then the America system. The British also live off past memories of a former World Power. The British are very weak in to comparision to their 1800 formerselfs, yet the people of the World fear and hold in reverance that former power. The United Kingdom is like an old man.....with a big British cane to hit people with European Union: "As a whole" The European Union as a whole is the 3rd member of the Imperial Oligarchy and its a major player in the World Market. The European Union as a whole has the largest single Market on Earth, the largest econmy on Earth and ranks 3rd in population. Several of its countries have the highest living standards on earth, and tourisim is a big revenune for the European Union. Manufacturing of goods has not even reached its prime and new nations are added each year which adds more capita and makes the Euro and increasly seen currency in the World Market with the US Dollar, the Jappanese Yen and the British Pound. Sub Catergories under European Union: Germany: The biggest manufacter in Europe, and one of the richest nations on Earth. France: The 5th richest nation on Earth, like the United Kingdom lives on former coloninal glory. Together Germany and France make up the core of the European Union and make it a force to be reckoned with. Russia: Though Russia sad in comparison to its former Communist Soveit counter part, is reveing back to streangth and acts as a strong player in the World Market though it probably is the weakest member on top. Japan: Japan is in charge of all the tecnological advances in the world and without Japan the United States may not have such a comfortable living situation. Efficiant products are made in Japan and Japan is about 10 years ahead of everyone else. It takes its seat next to the others and bows China: Though China seems to be poor, don't be fooled by the hidden Dragon in the bushes. The people have a hard time finding food for themseleves, yet with its powerful Socalist Market Economy and the Centralized Governoring Communist party; China commands the world's respect. China is one of the only other nations like the United States that can defy the UN in everyway. For without China, the world wouldn't have all its cheap, crappy, goods its needs. With an enormous population of 1.2 billion, a gigantic, megopoltiain economy, an army of 2.5 million, a nuclear arsenal, an a large land mass. China controls every country around it..........(Ever wonder why the 22 nations that surround China are so poor?) China sucks them dry of every resource they have to fuel themselves. Once the big 6 have taken their seats in the Imperial Oligarchy, The United States, the United Kingdom, Russia, The European Union, China and Japan the minior memebers take their seats: Brazil : Controling the atmosphere in South America, this country is the largest producer of most type of exotic goods and tropical foods in the world. Though preety poor the country still has some minior degree of power. Isreal:: Backed by the United States, this country doesn't produce much but holds the keys to the major hub of the three great montheistic religions in the world and with that it can wield enormous power. India : Like China it produces cheap goods and is the home to many new finacial markets, the country has a nuclear arsenal and does have a say in the Oligarchy from time to time. Canada:: The Northern neighboor of the United States, the Canadian Dollar makes up about 2% of the world currency (That estimate could be off) Australia: With its powerful culture, and strong fleet, it control the entire realm of Oceania. Without Australian Aid, teeny-weeny islands in Oceania would cease to exist. South Africa: As said in my early examples, Africa is weak and fueding but the one nation that does survive and has some stability is South Africa. If anyone were to govern Africa someday it would be South Africa. All together the nations that I have just said: The 6 main chairmans: The United States, the United Kingdom, Russia, the European Union, China, and Japan the 6 minior members: Brazil, Isreal, India, Canada, Australia, and South Africa; make up the counsel of Imperlism. Every other nation on Earth either serves these 12 powerful nations, help these nations with resources, or are to unstable to do anything. All the other nations on Earth are quite dangerous to live in, and pose no threat to Imperlism. If you take away the power of the 12 members of Imperlism the world falls apart because each of the 12 nations contributes in some way and owns the world market. Every other nation is just a minior player in the world. So in my opinion you need Imperlism to hold the world together, because all the Great economies in all have history have been made out of Imperlism, from Rome, to the Mongols, to the Merchantile Venice. Its sad that the world is controlled by 12 great powers but we have to live with it! Besides that is what the UN is around for, to make sure the smaller nations have a fair say in the world. Zeke

I though Bellum ment war? Zeke

no only Britian does Zeke

If I had absouluty had to join the armed forces I would try to get into the Royal Marines even though I am American. Serve her majesty and the United Kingdom. Something just fascinates me about them!! Anyway, does anyone have any information on the Royal Marines compared to other army units? Sorry about spelling, Zeke

Primus Pilius I believe

I think the Romans thought that the Libyan desert was the end of the world, perhaps? Zeke