Virgil61

Has anyone in the triumvirate seen Clustrmaps? It might be a neat tool to graphically layout site hits worldwide.

Hell Uros, welcome to the board. Florence is a beautiful city.

Beware: the new goths are coming Peter Almond Various excerpts: ONE of Britain

I enjoyed it, thanks for that review. It's an important work, up there with Syme, the review spurred me to want to buy it--again, I had a copy once and it's disappeared after several moves. I hate that.

Three fabulous threads right off the top of your head! Sure, they might not have the star power of other threads, but so what? Don't be such a populare... Or, to be fair, don't underestimate the forum. Haven't you ever started a thread and thought it would be a hit (only to see it fizzle) or started a thread that you thought would be dud (and turned out to be hit)? No this forum can't be underestimated, quite a few good posters. You can never tell which thread will catch everyone's imagination or better yet what direction that thread's original topic will wander off to.

I agree there's still much more to talk about regarding the late repbulic--the system of voting and its consequences, whether bribery was really widespread or just sour grapes, whether all or some or none of Sulla's laws should have been overturned, the history of the imperia extra ordinem, whether precedent was either necessory or sufficient to constrain imperia, etc. You might guess the nature of "the usual suspects' replies", but you might also be surprised, might teach someone something, or might even learn something yourself. The question is--What issues would you like to discuss next? If you'd rather we not beat dead horses, give us a fresh new one to beat! Of course I mainly meant the usual suspects on that narrow topic of Cato/Caesar which was Satan, which was saint. Some of us who are regulars tend to get tired of certain issues--old age, short attention spans, etc-- and forget that there's new blood that comes on in for whom the issue is new again or that you can still learn a few things from the others or, especially after reading and the contents of a particularly good book or study, can share new information. The problem with a new topic is there's little out there with the same star power or low flash point of the Caesar v Cato stuff. I could post ten posts about how democratic the Republic was, how were the allied Italians integrated into it, Polybius' discussion of it's constitution and so on. None of them combined would get the emotional and intellectual response from the memberships or longevity of threads called "Cato the constitutional matyr sainted by the Vatican", "Jesus Christ/Julius Caesar, seperated at birth?" or "Cato, Caesar or OJ--Who really killed Nicole Brown Simpson?". So I guess in that sense, I surrender.

I think you're right in that it's an endlessly fascinating topic of which there's still volumes more to talk about, but when I begin to guess the usual suspects replies then my attention span wanders. It's a more intellectually challenging topic in many ways than the Phalanx or Alexander issues.

The Cato v JC topic is tired? Now why would you say something like that?

I wish I could remember where I had read this, but I recall an article on cavalry in general and comments on saddles in the Roman-Parthian world. Someone had recreated a version of what it may have been like and found it to be a surprisingly stable platform for a rider enabling them to engage in things like archery, lancing, etc.

I can understand Italian POWs but I can't imagine German POWs. They look exactly like normal Americans. Actually German now is the most common nationality in America. Italians don't look like 'normal' Americans??? My dear fellow! Yeah I saw that as well. Pretty funny, I guess we look like 'abnormal' Americans! The irony is that in 1940's America full-blooded Italians made up a substantially higher percentage of the population than they do today.

I'll add to the other commentary that you cannot discuss operations of the legions of the late Republic or the Principate without understanding that they were plused up by auxiliary troops whose skills filled in the areas where the Romans were deficient; archers and cavalry come to mind. The Romans in the Republic and Principate had--to put it simply--one strong suit, excellent infantry who doubled as combat engineers. They kept to that strength and used auxilliaries, whose numbers in the Principate roughly equaled those of the legions, in a complementary manner.

The house on fire analogy is a bit over the top, although there's no doubt the occupation was mishandled at the start and we're paying the price for it. I've been on combat tours in Iraq and the overwhelming majority of combat, ambushes, IEDs whatever are located in about 25% of the country, where the minority and formerly in power Sunnis live and in Baghdad, both areas where the US Army and Marines have control of the sectors. The Kurish north and large areas of the Shia south containing second-tier cities like Karbala, Najaf, Al Kut, Al Hila and Nasiriyah are relatively peaceful except on one occasion when extremists infiltrated Najaf. That being said, I think there's a good argument to be made to parade Zarqawi's head on a pike through downtown Fallujah, Ramadi and Tikrit. Call me old school.

A rabid dog killed. Good work guys.

I remember a janitor in high school was a survivor of the Bataan Death March. Tall, lanky and sort of quite old guy at the time. I wish now we'd gotten his perspective. In the early 80's I worked with a local old guy in my home town who fought in the Pacific. A bunch of Japanese businessmen came by to check out the grain elevators we manned (picture of it with three storage bins) and where they were shipped wheat for noodles. I'll never forget his reaction was disgust, something like 'I fought those b*st*rds and now they're here'. He was generally a jerk anyway but this was one particularly vitriolic episode. I walked away from living in Russia with a whole new view of the Nazi approach to warfighting in the east. Yeah, I am aware of the Wehrmacht, Waffen-SS and Totenkopf-SS differences but the truth is the Wehrmacht was often as guilty of pulling bs as any other unit. Thanks for the film recommendation maybe I'll try and give my Russian skills a refresher course.

I always think of Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut when I hear Dresden. He was a POW--an infantry scout captured during the Battle of the Bulge--there when the bombing occured and you can just feel the emotional impact it had on him. In response to your first comment, I think the homogenity of culture and the same social mores that made them seem so single-minded in the service of their early empire are the same things that helped them become so successful in the realm of economics. You know although I understand the arguments against Dresden, Nagasaki and Hiroshima in the end part of me feels that a society or people are culpable for the actions of their government and armies, much more so when the atrocities were systematically committed on a large scale rather than small isolated incidents by rogue units. There are a couple of books I've read like Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland and Hitler's Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust which are somewhat along these lines. I don't even want to go down the road on the subject of Japanese medical experiments conducted on American POWs like multiple amputations on live and alert men just to see how long it would take them to die. For those interested Wikipedia is a decent starting point on Unit 731. POW survival rates are pretty instructive, something like 25% of all Allied POWs died in Japanese camps and only 4% died in Nazi ones. That doesn't allow for Russian and Polish prisoners who were treated worse than dogs by the Germans and died in droves. The first book, Ordinary Men, is especially chilling to me. Most of the men were 'regular guys'; butchers, bakers, accountants, etc and not really Nazi party enthusiasts. They spent much of their time guarding and escorting Jewish and Polish civilian prisoners and were often given orders to to simply kill them, which they carried out. They weren't particularly enthusiastic about the task and few seemed to have any strong anti-semetic or Polish sentiments but they went about lining them up and mowing them down. There's even one minor passage where they're lining up Jews to be shot and meet a group from the battalion's home town of Heidelberg. The guards and the Jews from there began to chit-chat about home, after awhile it was their turn so they marched them out, lined them up and shot 'em. What's chilling is that they were just 'ordinary men' and I think that lesson cuts across cultural lines, in other words it wasn't being German that allowed them to carry out their killings but something along the lines of going along with the peer group you're in which may partially explain the average Japanese soldier's response as well. Hitler's Willing Executioners is much more contraversial and devolves too much from history into an opinion piece for my tastes but still a good read.

This is interesting, after I saw the movie I read an interview with one of the actors who said that the soldiers portraying the Japanese were all Japanese actors. They grew up in the new Japan and the director had difficulty getting them to be brutal to the prisoners, most of them were very hesitant and wanted to act more humane towards them, which says a bit both on how far they've come and how little they've been taught of Japanese atrocities as well. The Germans have done a better job of facing the realities of what they did than the Japanese have. I know the Chinese and Koreans have chimed several times about how little Japanese schools have done to teach the atrocities done by them in the war. There isn't a history of the Pacific War that I've read both old, new, or revisionist that doesn't mention just how brutal they were. Popular opinion is less informed and quite frankly the fact that the holocaust victims were Europeans (survivors or their descendents like Speilberg writing memoirs and making movies) and the liberation of the concentration camps made more of an impact on the Western psyche.

Egypt had to be the worst place for tourists I've ever seen. Everywhere you go you're just a mark for the vendors in a big way. I've been around the world and I've never seen anything like it. The Egyptian Museum even has 'guide' trying to sell you their services on the outside. That said it's one of the most incredible museums I've ever seen. The Coptic girls on the other hand are very friendly when they find out you're American. I think Hawass is just doing his duty as an Egyptian in trying to get things returned. He and the country have a vested interest, both cultural and economic in doing so. Them tourists are money in Egypt believe me. That said, it'll be a cold day in hell when they get everything back. tflex, I think the point of the article is that he's not considered a fair arbitrator, you kiss his rear and include him in the dig or even give him credit or you don't dig. It's one thing to be the gatekeeper for proper field studies, which brings some quality control. It's quite another to usurp others work or involvement by injecting your own ego into it. I think the article was very clear about the criticism of Hawass lying in that area, it's a criticism I've read a few times.

Just watched "The Great Raid". Not a bad movie based on real events depicted in the "Ghost Soldiers". It's about the real life rescue of a Japanese prison camp full of Americans and a few Brits in 1945. Nearing the end of the war the Japanese had put out directives that POWs were to be executed so as not to be used as witnesses to atrocities. The real story is quite dramatic on it's own with just those characters also included in the film. It's really a disappointment they had to include a made-up romance interposing another real life character, Margaret Utinsky, into this film. It slowed the film down and drew attention away from what could have been a more fleshed out portrayal of the mission. Because of the inclusion of a fake romance they had to leave out a few dramatic events such as the march back with the POWs through an area held by Huks who were anti-American, anti-Japanese and rivals with the Filipino guerillas who played a key role in the rescue. I'll give the film credit in that it showed how key the Filipino guerrilla leader, Captain Pajota, was to the effort. He suggested delaying the action for 24 hours to allow a Japanese division to travel through the area, using cattle drawn wagons to pull the wounded and having a P-61 buzz the camp to distract attention while the Rangers moved in. What also irritated me were reading some of the reviews which suggested that one of the faults of the movie was a grim portrayal of the Japanese. Apparently the volumes of POW oral and written histories outlining atrocities were incorrect, not to mention the War Crimes trials of camp commanders and guards (yeah I know the victors determine guilt but don't bs anyone, their crimes were atrocities on a grander scale than the Allies). Decent enough movie that could've been much better if it would've followed the book in it's entirety. Edit: Here is the Army report on the raid in a pdf, warning slooow server.

Another side note about Zahi Hawass, here's a Sunday Times article with a less than flattering account of him. Oh, the drama! King Tut tut tut Excerpt: They call him the Pharaoh, the keeper of the pyramids. He rules Egyptology with an iron fist and a censorious tongue. Nobody crosses Zahi Hawass and gets away with it. As the fabulous treasures of Tutankhamun begin a world tour, Richard Girling excavates the conspiracies, conflicts and fears that curse the world of archeology. You might as well ask a eunuch to slag off an emperor. Quite quickly you get tired of asking: phone calls not returned; e-mails not answered; questions ducked. If you're lucky, you might get the odd side-of-mouth hint; but no names, no details. "Nobody of any standing in Egyptology will come out to help you," said one well-known Egyptologist of his colleagues, "because they'd lose their jobs. Sadly, people are cowering round his ankles." He is right. The hugged ankles belong to the most powerful man in archeology, Dr Zahi Hawass, aka Big Zee, secretary-general of Egypt's Supreme Council of Antiquities (SCA). It is Hawass who holds the keys to the pyramids, the Valley of the Kings, the Sphinx, Abu Simbel, everything. No Egyptologist gets in without his permission, and few will chance his anger. You can see why. Hawass is a one-man conflict zone who could start a war in an empty sarcophagus. In 2003, by some accounts (no fact passes unchallenged), Hawass expelled 14 expeditions from the country and, by his own account, denied access to hundreds more. He decides who digs where, and reserves for the SCA

On a side note, ol' self-promoting Hawass is no angel himself. Since he's been the government appointed 'Grand Poo-Bah' of antiquities in Egypt with the power to approve or decline field research he's been accused of a stranglehold on Egyptology in general. Get his favor or approval for your theory and you can do your field work in Egypt. Cross him and you'll be blackballed.

I just finished it. Well-made and all with some decent information, but essentially it was zero-sum history. In other words in order to build the Celtic world up Rome has to be torn down in Terry Jones's method of presentation. All you posted above is correct. It also includes the fact that the Celts made roads out of planks, but the way Jones makes it sound their construction was akin to engineering the Great Wall or the Pyramids. It seems to be an exercise in Roman bashing for general consumption. There's really little new for anyone here who has acquaintance with the Celts; big on trade, mining important ores with help from Roman demand and a certain level of culture and civilization. I noticed the same 'dissing' of Rome in favor of the 'barbarians' in "The Battle that Stopped Rome' as I did with the professors waxing poetic about the Celts. It seems like the thing to do if Northern European tribes of the classical era is your specialty. This may rile more than one person on this board. The 'noble savage' of history theory rises again with a touch of civilization this time.

Drives me up a wall when I see it, and I see it a lot. Even read an article by a classicist whose lecture I enjoyed once that did the same thing, but a bit more intelligently and focusing on the Republic, which, if you're going to do it is the era to focus on I think. On the link provided by TheTwoMinutesofHate--nice chilling Orwellian reference--to the documentary, it does work! You can either watch it on your browser or download a new Google Viewer and the file for the documentary. I recommend the second way as the resolution and sound is much better. Five minutes into it.

So a topless young woman exposing herself before battle to the Roman soldiers? [note to self: don't you dare type what you're thinking.] Do you have a link to this claim?

I've tried to keep up with what I thought was an exciting find, the Herculaneum Papyri, but I read about some disappointment that all it's given up so far was a minor philosopher named Philodemus' works. Interesting but not really everyone's hoped for treasure trove. There's hope that there might be more in the same villa's library but no plans to dig yet. I'd hope someday that some lost histories were found.

Grow Fins, fantastic. You can get both the Spotlight Kid and Clear Spot albums combined on one cd for the price of one (which is what I have). A great intro to his music. Zappa is maddeningly erratic to me, an amazing guitarist but all over the map sometimes. When he's 'on' there's no one better. Hot Rats is still one of my all time favorite albums, searing guitar. Speaking of great guitarists, how about the Mahavishnu Orchestra? Now a bit forgotten but what a band in it's time.