Favonius Cornelius

Humph. Arminus wouldn't have been able to do it without Roman training.

Has the number increased recently because of the internet browser hook-ups? Those yahoo/google bots that are always lurking around are what I mean, not 100% sure what their purpose is and if they have increased exposure.

Interesting! I look forward to your other parts. I'm a red fan myself. Here is a question: the Romans loved their games, but if it was not for Caesar and his spectacular events, would the Empire had formed such a fixation on them? Caligula liked the greens. I wonder if anyone other than the greens ever won during his reign. 'Congradualtions on your win Aulus Maximus of the whites. The emperor wishes to congradulate you...personally.'

The origins of this old Roman deity are not certain. He was originally worshipped by the Sabines who were a local Latin people who lived on the Quirinal (Quirinalis) hill north east of Rome, which was named after their greatest god Quirinus. Later as Rome expanded and included this hill as the seven of Rome Quirinus became one of the most important gods of state along with Mars and Jupiter. He is usually depicted as a bearded man wearing clothes that suggest religious and military influence. His wife was Hora, sacred plant the myrtle, and his festival the Quirinalia celebrated on February 17th. Later he became associated with Romulus. My guess is he was just the major deity of the Sabines, and in Roman fashion he was adopted as Rome included the Sabines later. Since his origin was so old, later Romans assumed he was deified Romulus, since the latest Caesars were being deified why not also the founding father of Rome? Another excellent essay on Quirinus: http://home.tiscali.be/mauk.haemers/colleg...is/quirinus.htm Bk XIV:805-828 The deification of Romulus 'Tatius died, and you, Romulus, gave orders equally to both peoples. Mars, removing his helmet, addressed the father of gods and men in these words:

I have not read Eusebius before. Is it all religious history or does it have secular events recorded as well?

Hm ancient version of psychological warfare.

Something along the lines of Seweress I believe. Cloaca is sewer in Latin, Cloaca Maxima the main sewer running through Rome.

Here is an amusing goddess the Romans did not forget. Cloacina was the parton goddess of the sewers, actually an important aspect of city life if you think about it. There was a small shrine to Cloacina in the forum of Rome in front of the Basilica Aemilia, which marked the entrance of the sewer that drained the forum. Later she became identified with Venus. Now when you think of sweage I imagine that the last thing on one's mind is love and beauty, but if you think of the goddess as purifying the city I think it takes on a new aspect. Informative link: http://www.vroma.org/~jruebel/cloacina.html

Heh ya I agree. They were usually an assortment of lightining stuck buildings and malformed animal offspring.

Heh congrats. Chem can be a byatch. The thing I always hated most about chem was the titration of complex acids and bases. Oh also thermodynamics.

Heh. The choice between horse or sheep eh?

What scene in a movie or passage in a history or historical fiction is as powerful as the oath of a general before a battle? When the pieces are set, when the enemy is soon upon you, there remains one last thing before meeting fate: "Before leading their troops into battle, the Roman consuls offered sacrifice. It is said that the haruspex pointed out to Decius that the liver was damaged on the side that related to his fortunes, but that the victum was in all other respects acceptable to the gods. Manlius' Sacrifice, however, had been exceptionally successful. 'It is good enough,' said Decius, 'if my colleague has received favorable omens.' They advanced into the field... At first the battle was fought with equal strength and ardor on each side. But after a while the first line of Roman soldiers on the left failed to withstand the Latin attack and fell back on the second line. In this confusion the consul Decius called out to Marcus Valerius in a loud voice: 'We have need of the gods' help, Marcus Valorous! So come, state Pontifex of the Roman people, dictate the words so that I may vow my life to save the legions.' The pontifex ordered him to put on the purple-bordered toga and, with veiled head and one hand thrust out form his toga, touching his chin and standing upon a spear that was laid under his feet, to recite the following words: 'Janus, Jupiter, Father Mars, Quirinus, Bellona, Lares, divine Novensiles, divine Indigites - I invoke and worship you, I beseech and beg your indulgence, that you prosper the might and victory of the Roman people of the Quirites, and send fear, shuddering, and death upon the enemies of the Roman people of the Quirites. Just as I have pronounced the words, even so on behalf of the republic of the Roman people of the Quirites, and of the army, the legions, the auxiliaries of the Roman people of the Quirites, do I devote the legions and auxiliaries of the enemy, together with myself, to the divine Manes and to Earth.' Having uttered this prayer he ordered the lictors to go to Titus Manlius and lose no time in announcing to his colleague that he had vowed his own life on behalf of the army. He himself, tying his toga in the Gabinian knot, leaped fully armed onto his horse and plunged into the midst of the enemy. He could be clearly seen by both sides, a sight to be revered as almost superhuman, as if he had been send from heaven to expiate all the anger of the gods and turn destruction away from his own men and bring it upon their adversaries." -Livy

One of my views on all this can be wisely summed up by another man: "In my opinion, the area in which the Roman constitution is most conspicuously superior is their concept of the gods. It seems to me that the very thing that is a matter of reproach among other peoples is what holds the Roman state togeather: I mean deisidaimonia. Religious matters are dramatized and introduced into their public and private life to such an extent that nothing could exceed them in importance. Many people may find this amazing. My own opinion is that they have adopted these practices for the sake of the common people. For if you could form a state entirely from wise men, this approach perhaps would not have been necessary. But since every mass of people is fickle, and full of lawless desires, irrational passion, and violent anger, its is essential that they be controlled by invisible terrors and suchlike pagentry." --Polybius

Well I guess it depends on what you mean by veto. Not in the Tribune sense, but I am sure they could influence the passing of the treaty by the time honored Roman political tactic of saying that the proper rites associated with the rituals of treaty acceptance were not properly conducted, or that a sign from the gods was noted when the ceremony was underway.

The Fetials were a small collection of priests who's responsibility it was to conduct the rites involved with declaring war on another nation. They seemed to have functioned with importance in the early years of Rome, but gradually lost their application as the Republic fell and Empire remained, although Augustus may have tried to revive the order. There was an area of land of one the temples...Bellona? that was considered to be foreign territory so that these priests could conduct the ritual when Rome declared war on a distant enemy. "Since Numa had instituted religious practices in time of peace, so Ancus Marcius provided a ceremonial for war that wars might not only be waged but also declared with some form of ritual. So he adopted from the ancient people of the Aequicolae the law that the fetials now have by which a state demands redress for an act of hostility. When the legate arrives at the frontier of those from whom redress is demanded, he covers his head with a woolen cap and says: 'Hear, Jupiter, hear, boundaries of ___ let divine law hear! I am the official herald of the Roman people. I come in the name of justice and religion; let there be trust in my words.' Then he recites his demands. Next he takes Jupiter to witness: 'If I unjustly or impiously demand that this property and these men be surrendered to me, then never let me have enjoyment of my native land.' He recites these words when he crosses the boundary line, again to the first person he meets, again when entering the town gate, and again when he has entered the market-place, with only a few changes in the formula and wording of the oath. If his demands are not met at the end of thirty-three days (for this is the conventional number), he declares war as follows: 'Hear Jupiter and you gods of the underworld, hear! I call you to witness that this people ____ is unjust and does not make just reparation. But regarding these matters we will consult the elders in our fatherland, how we may obtain our due.' Then the legate returns to Rome for the consultation." -Livy 1.32.6-14

'On the dawn of that day (25th April),, when I was returning from Nomentum to Rome, a white-robed crowd blocked the middle of the road. A flamen was on his way to the grove of ancient Robigo, to throw the entrails of a dog into the flames and also the entrails of a sheep. Immediately I went up to him to learn of the rite. Your flamen, Quirinus, uttered the following words: 'Scaly Robigo, may you spare the sprouting corn, and let the smooth top quiver on the surface of the ground. Let the crops grow, nourished by the propitious constellations of the heavens, until they are ready for the sickle. Your power is considerable: the grain on which you have made your mark the farmer sadly counts as lost. Neither winds nor rain nor glistening frost that nips and pales the grain harm it as much as when the sun warms the wet stalks. Then, fearful goddess, is the time for your anger. Spare, I pray, and take your scabby hands from the harvest and d not harm our fields of grain. It is enough that you have the power to harm. Do not embrace the tender crops, but rather embrace hardy iron. First destroy what can destroy others. Better that you pick on swords and harmful weapons. There is no need of them: the world is at peace. Now let hoes, the handy two-pronged mattock, and the curved plough-share, the wealth of the countryside, shine brightly. But let rust defile arms, and let anyone who tries to draw his sword from its scabbard feel it stick from long disuse. But do not defile the grain, and may the farmer always be able to pay vows to you in your absence. These were his words. From his right hand hung a napkin with a loose nap, and he had a box of incense together with a bowl of wine. The incense and wine, and the entrails of a two-year old sheep and the foul guts of a filthy dog he placed on the hearth - we saw him do this. Then he asked this question. 'Learn the reason,' the flamen said, 'it is the Dog (they call it the Icarian dog) and when that constellation rises the earth is parched and dry, and the crop ripens prematurely. This dog is put on the alter in the place of the Dog Star; there is no reason for killing him other than the name.' - Ovid, Fasti This is such a peaceful excerpt. I especially like the sentiment of rusting blades rather than barley. The Icarian dog is Maera, who discovered the body of Icarius and was transformed into the Dog Star.

A girl chosen to be a Vestal Virgin must, according to law (fas), be no less than six and no more than ten years old. Both her father and mother must be alive. She must not be handicapped by a speech or hearing problem or marked by some physical defect. ...Neither one nor both of her parents may have been slaves or engaged in menial occupations... As soon as a Vestal has been chosen, escorted to the House of Vesta, and handed over to the pontifices, she immediately leaves the control of her father, without a ceremony of manumission or loss of civil rights, and she acquires the right to make a will... The Vestal is said to be 'taken', it seems, because the pontifex maximus grasps her by the hand and she is led away from the parent under whose control she is, as if she had been 'taken' in war... The words which the pontifex maximus should speak when he accepts a Vestal Virgin are these: 'I take you, Amata, as one who has fulfilled all the requirements to be a priestess of Vesta and to perform the sacred rites which it is lawful for a priestess of Vesta to perform on behalf of the Roman people.' - Aulus Gellius, Attic Nights

Honestly a little suprised to see how poorly California scored.

Heh.

Saracens? I don't remember them ever taking southern Italy. Sicily yes. Also I think the Byzantines only took the southern portion of Italy but never quite the north.

this thread was split from the Romanization At A Glance Topic Interesting stuff! Know much about the condition of Italia after the fall of the Western Empire?

Excellent thanks for the suggestions! I added Aurelius and Jornandes. Let me know if you are aware of more details about them.

Sorry I am not aware of any, though it's easy to imagine some woman with a helmet and a spear, Athena-like perhaps but that is just a guess.

I'm a lower level cellular biologist working for a pharmaceutical company. It takes a lot of my time much to my sorrow...I think I was an archaeologist in another life. Hey I took four years of Latin in a non-Jesuit high school, but admittedly the class was a special rarity and I was lucky.

So on the web you can easily find lists of all the Roman consuls and Censors. My question is are there any existing lists for other names such as Aediles, Quaestors, Tribunes, Legati, Praefecti and so on?