Germanicus

How do you see a connection between religious offices and their effect on the fall ? I don't see it.

I suppose laws on Bribery cover it.....but then in reality they didn't did they ? I guess I can't have it both ways, I can't have the positive reforms the office enabled for the people without the demagogues. My concern is Veto for cash. The only thing I can think of is to have the 10 tribunes as a board if you will, with a Veto only possible if in majority agreement, rather than indivuals being able to Veto at will, despite no support from their collegues. Would this not be an amicable compromise ? The Tribunes retain the power - but buying one or even two tribunes would no longer gaurantee you your Veto on tha Bill you don't want passed. It may also have helped put a stop to some demagoguery by individuals ala Saturninus ?

Perhaps some sort of reform regarding the office of tribune and it's easy abuse.

Julius Caesar Oh so subtle as usual Cato, you just can't resist.

Niether party would win that conflict.

No way, I love what a bunch of nasty crims they are. Adriana was begging to be whacked - talking to the Feds behind Christophers back ? I would like to avoid any more Tony Soprano sex scenes though....uuurrggghhh

Perhaps, but then wouldn't this undermine the command structure considerably - if Junior officers were able to second guess their commanding officers ? What keeps modern forces loyal ? Good conditions provided by the state, good pay etc ? I think like Primus Pilus mentioned, the key here is that the Army would have to be provided for by "The State", rather than individual generals.

But again, if Soldier loyalty could be to the Senate and People, rather than an individual general, you wouldn't need a military court. It also seems that even if the Senate gave assurance to soldiers based on service, a general would just outdo them if he wanted to buy loyalty.

Me too, it's an excellent film and an excellent book.

An excellent review, it does sound trashy doesn't it.

I really can't pick just one of each.

Abuse of the office of Tribune of the plebs was responsible for much conflict. It was a means for individuals, plebian or patrician, to overule the Senate. It was however also a means to enhance plebian rights and privileges. I think possibly some of the Sullan reforms could have helped the Republican cause...if making the Aristocratic Oligarchy even more entrenched, and so a different republic. It would have been one hell of a task, hence I don't think it really could have been saved. I also agree with a previously mentioned point regarding control of proffessional armies. How to limit a Generals control over the loyalty of his troops, without compromising his effectiveness ? Good thread Cato !

Phil25, this is not the Afterhours lounge, if you want to debate the pros and cons of the USA, best to do it there, although you'll find it's been discussed previously on more than one occasion. I am so glad that you are NOT representative of Americans in my experience Flavius, most I know through this forum, and are intelligent, well read and open minded.

I also voted Republic. In it's prime, it did all that it could be expected to for it's size, in the terms mentioned already by PP . For the most part, the beauty of the Republic was that there was no need to The Republican system fully recognised that at times, rule by one person was the best option - hence emergency dictatorship.

Felix, if you don't like these hypothetical threads, don't post in them.

So your mother frequents this forum ?LOL

Probably because a Republic was a foreign idea to the natives, where as rule by a king equivalent (Emperor) was what they had been used to up to conquest ?

Buddhism anyone ???

Did you ever see the series Pertinax ?

I was referring to modern historians. - No differring opinion regarding "Restorer of the Republic there"

Yay - Just saw a preview for this on Channel seven in Australia, starts January. We get everything late.

I was always interested in ancient history, for as long as I can remember. I probably began to read more about it in my childhood after watching a BBC series called "The Eagle of the Ninth" which I remember as a really gritty depiction. How did you get into it Cato ?

I always really liked Aquaman for some reason

Agreed, democracy is an elected oligarchy. While I agree with it, I think there are two main problems with the "Some people are leaders, some people are followers" sentiment. One is that those who have the drive and the finance to become a leader in a modern democracy, don't do it for the "greater good", they invariably are, or become, self serving. By their very nature they are also totally convinced of the "rightness" of their opinions and subsequent actions. The other thing that I notice, more so in Australia than I suppose the US, is that once a party gets in control of a legislative body, they can just change or abolish any laws that protect human freedom. Australia is one of, if not the only democracy in the western world with no right to freedom of speech enshrined in law, or a Bill of Rights as it were, scary. I guess a redeeming feature is that we are required by law to vote or we get fined.