G-Manicus

It would appear New Hampshire agrees with you.

Tuesday 1/15/08 The Lost Gods Smithsonian Channel - 10:30 am Next showing: The Romans The rise and fall of Rome and the gods it revered.

Obama vs McCain

Ah, fascinating. Thank you! It's funny that my first thought was that it wouldn't shock me if Octavian was involved in Hirtius' death.

Back from vacation. Hopefully you survived without me. Wednesday 1/9/08 Rick Steves' Europe HDNET - 7:30 am Next showing: Provence: Legendary Light, Wind and Wine Roman ruins in Nimes; Avignon's papal palace; Van Gogh's Arles; the Rhone. Thursday 1/10/08 Ancient Discoveries History - 10:00 pm Next showing: Ancient Computer? About 1900, sponge divers find the Antikythera mechanism on a shipwreck deep in the Aegean Sea, and archaeologists date the analog computer to 87 B.C. Friday 1/11/08 Smart Travels: Europe With Rudy Maxa HDNET - 8:00 am Next showing: Bath and South Wales Ancient Roman spas; the mystical town of Glastonbury, England; the Wye River Valley; Tintern Abbey inspires poet William Wordsworth. Gladiator (2000) TNT - 8:00 pm Condemned to arena fights by corrupt Roman leader Commodus, Gen. Maximus seeks revenge for his family's deaths. Saturday 1/12/08 Superweapons of the Ancient World Military Channel - 7:00 pm Next showing: The City Destroyer The fourth century sees the creation of a mobile armor-plated siege tower armed with catapults. Monday 1/14/08 What the Romans Did for Us History International - 9:30 am Next showing: Building Britain New farming methods; planning of towns; plumbing. Tuesday 1/15/08 Smart Travels: Europe With Rudy Maxa HDNET - 8:00 am Next showing: Out of Rome Emperor Hadrian's villa; wine and lakes of the Alban Hills; ancient seaport of Ostia; olive oil pressing; Rome's ring road. Rome: Engineering an Empire History International - 10:00 pm A history of the Roman Empire tells of spectacular and sordid events, from the rise of Julius Caesar to the country's eventual fall. Thursday 1/17/08 Unsolved History Science Channel - 2:00 pm Next showing: The Roman Colosseum The Roman Colosseum is the ultimate ancient venue for the display of bloodsport. Ancient Discoveries History - 10:00 pm Next showing: Ships The titans of Roman naval-engineering lurk beneath the blue waters of Lake Nemi. Friday 1/18/08 Ancient Almanac History International - 11:00 am Next showing: Masada: The Last Fortress More than 900 Jews make a last stand against the Romans in 73 A.D. at the mountain fortress of Masada Hot Rocks Science Channel - 3:00 pm Next showing: Water A look at man's relationship with water, from the catastrophic flooding of the Stone Age to the fall of the Roman Empire. Saturday 1/19/08 Superweapons of the Ancient World Military Channel - 6:00 am Next showing: The Ram A team recreates a Roman tortoise ram and tries to demolish a replica of an ancient city-wall.

Is that the Ancient Roman equivalent of the place where all of Batman's villains were sentenced?

Flavian Flav!! Yeah boy!!!

On this day... * 69

I'm guessing MPC would take the same vow of non-interference ... especially if he was sent back to oh, say March of 44 BC. Well, until it came time to talk his boys into whacking Antony that is.

I'll take witnessing the historical events myself. I'd have to take that whole Star Trek vow of non-interference though (or whatever the hell it is). Otherwise I'd be in Varro's face at Cannae going "It's a TRAP you idiot! He's going to SURROUND you!"

Ah, gotcha. I thought you meant long term (Constitutional) plans. Yes, in terms of the short term I would agree with you. They really needed better Spin Control too.

Thus the basis for my hypothesis. :-)

Monday 12/24/07 The Lost Gods Smithsonian Channel - 10:30 am Next showing: The Romans The rise and fall of Rome and the gods it revered.

mcpon: I for one like your list. You can always quibble with this selection or that selection or where this person was slotted. At least it wasn't bogged down in political correctness like a lot of other similar lists I've seen. Bravo.

Ingsoc: I tend to think the aftermath played out like it did, not because they didn't have a plan, but rather they underestimated Antony (and later Octavian). Caesar's death created a power vacuum which Antony (and Octavian) sought to fill. As Gaius' link points out, with no Antony there really weren't any individuals with the desire, cajones, and will to try and grab the brass ring. Maybe like the "Liberators" I'm underestimating Octavian, but post "Liberation Day" I don't see him having the stones or experience to take on the Republic. Well, maybe the stones. But he was forced to rely on Antony's military experience to carry the ball in the early stages and I suspect whatever army he could have scraped together would have met with disaster. Again, maybe I'm underestimating him, and Agrippa too I suppose. God knows I wouldn't have been the first. G

I believe the technical term for this is "Brain Fart."

Let me post this scenario to you. Caesar and Antony are assassinated and Rome returns to rule by the Consuls/Senate. No doubt it would have been on the minds of the "Liberators" to take action to prevent this from happening again, no? Could the likes of Cato and Cicero, two of the most respected thinkers of their time, crafted a Constitutional solution? Or more to the point, would they have been allowed to?

It's said that Caesar's assassins also wished to kill Marc Antony on the Ides of March but that he was spared at the (looking back now) naive insistence of Brutus, who thought Antony could be brought around once Caesar was gone. Hearkening back to Cicero's famous quote describing Caesar's assassination as "that superb banquet," what would the impact have been had they expanded the menu to include Antony? Would the Republic have survived? Or was the Empire inevitable? I find it hard to imagine Octavius rising to power without Antony's military might to do the heavy lifting. That aside, was the Republic already beyond saving? Was the damage inflicted upon it by the brothers Gracchus, Gaius Marius, Sulla, Caesar, etal, a mortal wound? Was it only a matter of time until somebody was able to come along and consolidate power and sweep away the last vestiges of he Republic ?

Very cool.

Thursday 12/27/07 Treasures of the Deep National Geographic - 3:00 am Explore the waters between the ancient ports of Rome and Carthage for hidden artefacts. Monday 12/31/07 The Dark Ages History International - 8:00 pm Charlemagne, St. Benedict and the Empress Theodora help to bridge the gap of civilization between Rome and the Renaissance. The History of Sex History - 9:00 pm Next showing: Ancient Civilizations Egyptians; Mesopotamians; Greeks; Romans. Weapon Masters Discovery - 10:00 pm Next showing: Roman Scorpion Chad and Mike create a Roman scorpion, a giant free-standing crossbow.

Well, since Valens is now dead I'd call it "Mission: Accomplished."

Saturday 12/22/07 Tales of the Living Dead History International - 10:00 am Next showing: Roman Murder Mystery An excavation in Suffolk reveals four skeletons. (Paging Flavia Gemina ... you have a call on line 1) Monday 12/24/07 Smart Travels: Europe With Rudy Maxa HDNET - 6:00 am Next showing: Bath and South Wales Ancient Roman spas; the mystical town of Glastonbury, England; the Wye River Valley; Tintern Abbey inspires poet William Wordsworth. What the Romans Did for Us History International - 9:30 am Next showing: Life of Luxury The Romans bring innovations in homes and gardens to Britain. Wednesday 12/26/07 Smart Travels: Europe With Rudy Maxa HDNET - 8:00 am Next showing: Out of Rome Emperor Hadrian's villa; wine and lakes of the Alban Hills; ancient seaport of Ostia; olive oil pressing; Rome's ring road.

That's my point. Antony was a loyal Caesarian as well. I would think that it would have seemed clear by then that the way to power was through control of the legions. Octavian, being an historic opportunist, surely would have grasped that. At the time, he had the backing of the Optimates (by way of Cicero) as well did he not? PS - Once I get done with my investigation of Cato the Qaestor, I'm going to open up a new case here I think. :-)

In April of 43 BC, the Roman Senate sent both Consuls, Aulus Hirtius and Gaius Vibius Pansa, into the field to face Antony's troops. They also sent along with them young Octavian. Antony ending up routing Pansa's forces at the Battle of Forum Gallorum. Pansa was mortally wounded and died several days later from his wounds. A week later, Hirtius and Octavian confronted Antony at the Battle of Mutina where, though victorious, Hirtius somehow died in battle. In the span of 1 week, both consuls of Rome were killed and Octavian was now in command of their legions. Question: does anyone besides me smell a rat here? Ie - knowing what we know about Ancient Rome at the time in general, and Octavian in particular, does anyone think it quite possible that Octavian may have played a role in Hirtius' convenient death? Has this been speculated before that you're aware of?

LOL! You wouldn't want to down a few skins of wine with the man and find out about each other? "Tell me more of these internets and this UNRV you speak of!"