Faustus

Faustus, is there any detailed account of the two great Judean revolts in that book ? Salve Gladius, In answer to your question, yes. On the first Revolt 16 pages as prelude, 17 pages on the actual revolt, and on the second 19 pages. In the first place one of the primary reasons I bought the book was to learn what I could about the revolts, which have always interested me because of their lasting effect on the history of the Jewish people, and the diaspora that resulted. This was the start of the nomenclature Syria-Palestina I believe. All this fell into place for me after watching I CLAVDIUS finally, after having had it given to me as a present some twelve years before. My experience was serendipitous about that. I had suggested "IC" as a gift for me at Christmastime, and on getting it I watched the first 10 minutes and decided I didn't have time. IC had to wait until I "semi retired" last year, when bouncing off of Rome-I. I then crammed IC into a solid "viewing marathon". Then seeing IC sent me to TACITUS to verify some of the subtleties of the events depicted in the film, and so I was fortunate enough to come across The Jews in the Roman World, which filled the bill for me. I have long been aware of the Rome/Jerusalem/Athens trinity, but the family connections between the Roman Imperial family and that of Herod and the position of Agrippa-I living there practically as a foster child (hostage?) was one of those subleties I hadn't before been aware of. This is really a terrifically interesting book! Sorry, I just now saw your comment/question. Valete

Did Romans invent board games? In my opinion, of couse they did, as they excelled in diversions from boredom, and we saw an instance of a board game being played in I CLAVDIVS; a game of war and ships as I recall. What is your favorite board game? The one I recall enjoying the most (in the 60's) was Mille Bornes: Check it out at http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Transwiki:Mille_Bornes It's the perfect couples game, but kids would love it too.

Salve, my last was Christian Meier's CAESAR. He doesn't just tell us what Caesar did but goes into the possible tensions within the man, disassembling his motives all the while. Before CM's Caesar I had read Holland's RUBICON, trying to get at the man Caesar once again by understanding the political environment preceding him. I found Rubicon frenetic, but very interesting. He seemed in an awful hurry to get it all in. Still it was fun; for instance the story of the Sybill as part of the history (and other sordid details). That was an excellent way to pose the importance of religion and moral choices to the Romans and how they were sustained by their ancient beliefs. (Caesar: excellent read, head scratching at times) Presently I'm reading two books, Grant's THE JEWS IN THE ROMAN WORLD which tells of the Importance of the jews special relationship with Rome and the dispensation they won from Rome to have their religious days honored even by the Roman occupiers, as to how they would respectfully conduct themselves, spoke of their importance in the Roman world. They of all the Roman-governed peoples tell us their own story, rather than having the usual situation prevail of our hearing the story only in Roman words. This in part also shows us the importance of the Jewish minority in Roman society. Imagine, they have a culture that survives intact and extant after almost 6,000 years. Their talents, the importance of the size of their minority within Rome, and their location at the edge or the frontier of the Roman Empire made them triply important, until, it seems their tendency to revolt required an example be made of their impudence. (290 pages; Notes; Some books; Tables; Index) The second book I alternate to and from is Henry Ashby Turner, Jr.'s THIRTY DAYS january 1933 (Hitlers Thirty Days to Power) details all the luck and calculatingly bold moves made by the fanatic Hitler during the thirty crucial days that brought him to power. Everyone who uses this monster as an example of what can happen in America should read this book and think again. (184 pages; aAppendix; Abbreviations; Notes; Bibliography; and Index) (Very illuminating and detailed so far) Valete

As an example of your comment, not too long ago I did some saturday work for a young well educated engineer working in the space sciences here locally. He was 'hot' from the San Francisco area: young, good looking, newly stamped, clean, and articulate, as some are wont to say. I was in the middle of some repairs he didn't want to tackle himself, when we stopped for lunch. He had brought some sandwiches, and soft drinks, and we sat down together in the shade to eat, and chat. It didn't take me long for me to find a seque and bring up the subject I'm most interested in, Ancient Rome It was a tangent path from our limestone industry here in Southern Indiana, which we'd touched on. Before too long, he perhaps thinking that I am more like he than some of the local people he'd run across, made the comment that "what amazed" him "was the relative lack of education of the local people he had found himself working with" in his job. His job was design work in the guiding systems for missiles which fix on a few astronomical objects which become visible just above the cloud cover as the missile is lanched sub-orbitally. My comment to him was to not be too taken in by what he perceives in these country folk as seemingly being uneducated; they play themselves down, to learn more about those they are dealing with, especially those who are from outside the local area; In that way they are able to get the strangers to reveal themselves. My question to him was: When you get into a situation of negotiation with these people, how does it turn out for you? His answer: "Not how I expect it to, usually" he said a little chagrinned at the outcome of our conversation. Valete, Faustus (#220 ~~~ Eric Hoffer's P.S.M.) To spell out the obvious, is to sometimes call it in question (#157 & 158 ~~~ Eric Hoffer's P.S.M) LACK of self awareness renders us transparent. A soul that knows itself is opaque; like Adam after he ate from the tree of knowledge it uses words as fig leaves to cover its nakedness and shame. We can see through others only when we can see through ourselves.

All you say is true, but none of it challenges the possibility of mankind also changing over, say the next 10,00 years, into something different or even into two groups. I think the idea of two separate groups is the disturbing part of the researchers stated scenario. The two groups, if there were a split, would undoubtedly be of the same breedable species, unlike his projection of two species It seems to me that he is attempting to point out some of the environmental/sociological conditions that would over time have a profound affect on the human population, and in affect seperate it into two groups which would not find each other very attractive as sexual, life, or breeding partners; this all taking place in a world in which people can make their own choices.

I drug this up from the past to give it some new life. I do believe the depictions shown in the link are exaggerations or caricatures and do some harm to the economist's deductions on the future of humans, but we have molded and shaped the dog family in a relatively short span of time, and we see exhibited much greater differences between Chihuahua and a Staffordshire Terrier for instance. The changes with dogs were brought about with purposeful breeding, but if a person or persons (human beings) has limited breeding options, wouldn't the result be about the same over time? And wouldn

I'd want to be a freedman or a freed slave. One of the best routes to excel in Roman society, appeared to be open to slaves with useful skills. To serve the powerful meant to be close to the powerful, and in serving the powerful, (but not too powerful, which could involve unpredictable dangers) with skill and acumen, a slave was likely to be noticed and become a valuable property. Not too rarely, some of those slaves were manumitted as a reward for some meritorious service. I would have strived to become one of those individuals. One of the most exciting fields in Rome was construction, and for a freed slave, working close to or under an architect would have been a service of a high order. Buildings, stuctures, even earthworks created as a result of those labors could have, and many times have, lasted for millenia.

I can't add much to this conversation with words, but here's an image that might interest you with an interpretation. This caught my eye in Time Magazine October 24, 1988 - a clipping: (first the link to the painting - NOTE: You cannot link directly to the url on this server; you'll have to C&P to a seperate document so as to go to it indirectly ~~~ It's worth the trouble!) http://www.abcgallery.com/P/poussin/poussin9.JPG "Nicolas Poussin ~~~ THE DEATH OF GERMANICUS (1627-1628) AD 19 poisoned -- so it was believed --- by a jealous Roman Governor. He soon became an archetype of the betrayed hero. Poussin turns this incident into a tremendous oration on duty and continuity, overlaid with Christian allusions to the entombment of Jesus, whose life Germanicus' overlapped. The hero lies dying beneath the frame of a blue curtain, which suggests both a temple pediment and a military tent. On the right are are his wife, women servants and little sons; on the left, his soldiers and officers. The common soldier on the far left weeps inarticulately, his grandly modeled back turned toward us. Next to him, a centurion in a billowing red cloak starts forward: grief galvanized to action in the present. Then a gold-armored pillar of a general in a blue cloak (adapted from an antique bas-relief) projects grief forward into the future by swearing an oath of revenge; Poussin hides the man's face to suggest that this is not a personal matter but one of history itself. The target of this socially ascending wave of resolution is not only Germanicus (whose exhausted head on the pillow vividly predicts the style of G

Cloth is good, something the grade of sailcloth. A grout bag today is light canvas, with a slippery coating on the inside to reduce friction and to make the mortar fall through without sticking. Olive oil? Pertinax mentioned olive oil as a stress reducing agent. Today, In forming concrete, the forms are coated with oil to prevent the concrete from bonding to the forms. This also extends the life of the forming material. The Romans would have had an abundance of olive oil, and olive oil would have added that slippery coating that todays bags have through more exotic modern coatings.

This last Saturday I spent the day filling narrow spaces between many polygonal patio blocks with mortarium. To do this I used a Roman grout bag or (Roman calk gun). Since the Romans invented concrete, I have to credit them with inventing this tool To visualize, think of a pastry chef

For me it's the qualities I find to admire, and as the prime model for western civilization. And I find the same qualities in their top leaders: Their genius for these things: organization, management, engineering, art, architecture, military acumen, government, law, their stoicism, tolerance for all religions (as long as those religions did not practice intolerance), their staying power, common sense, and farsightedness, the beauty of their language, and much, much more. In many ways the affects of Rome survive today, and its fall continues even now it seems to me.

Having read through all the ideas presented here , I note that as usual the comments have covered most all of the possibilities in a scholarly manner, but this subject, first of all lends itself to a fictional treatment of a Rome never having fallen. You can explore that possibility In Robert Silverberg

Looking through the World Without Us TOPIC and link, and all the theories of Alan Weisman, I found I could take issue with a number of his predictions. I was also glad to see that everyone on the Forum had fun with it and treated it as lightly as it deserved. But the Mortality we are all supremely conscious of is our own, and wouldn't it be "fun" or at least interesting to have an inkling of the date of that hopefully distant event; To be able to predict that outcome barring an accident, whether it be a violent one in a car, or some genetic accident that forshortens our journey here? This link will take you there, just be honest and you'll find the results fascinating: (It even gives an idea of how it can be forestalled.) http://www.poodwaddle.com/realage.swf FAUSTUS Think, in this batter'd caravanserai Whose doorways are alternate night and day, How sultan after sultan with his pomp Abode his hour or two and went his way. ~~~

When I wandered in here to UNRV the first time I knew I wanted to sign up before leaving, but hadn't before consided a screen name. Being very late at night locally, I did what I usually do under pressure: thought of an example of a lesson learned, and my reading of "Faust" was that lesson: to never make a deal with the "devil". I chose that name with a masculine ending, believing I would change it before long, to something more becoming of myself. I especially liked a snippet from a version of FAUST that I print here in full. It seems to be a credo to live by. And I like the favorable quality of the fiery Italian blood so at that moment it all hung together for me (I would be Faustus): "But Still I'm troubled by one thing: Time is short and art is long. I'd think you'd let yourself be taught. Associate yourself with a poet and let him gallop through all fields of thought and heap all noble qualities on your honored head: The lion's courage, the stag's speed, the fiery Italian blood, the Norman's fortitude." ~~~~(Johann Wolfgang von Goethe)

This is a lighthearted topic, and it

Salve GPM I sent you a pm before I read your reply to my self introduction. That quarry hole is interesting for several reasons unknown to the casual observer. That is the same quarry used in the film "Breaking Away". It was a story about a group of Hoosier kids here in Bloomington, the capital of the limestone industry, who like all who grew up here, spent summer days at the Long Hole Quarry, or at one of the other beautiful edifices to our Roman/Italian heritage spotted around the surrounding area. The story went something like this. There is a division between Town and Gown in Bloomington, Indiana the seat of Indiana University (Indianensis Universitatis). The Local boys called themselves

(By Your Leave: Mea culpa ~~ I edited too late and messed up! I

Salve Does anyone else find it interesting what prompts people to involve themselves in different fields of study? This man Jason Ur, finds an interest in Ancient Urbanism and Urbanisation especially in relation to and around the ancient city of Uruk. Tell me there is nothing in common here, as it seems more than a coincidence to me, and that we are inspired by our own names as much as by anything else.

Salve, and thanks for asking the question Spittle! As for me, I or we I think, already have the things that mean the most! Their very words. We know more about what Ancient Romans said, verbatim, than any one else throughout history. To me accurate pronunciation, though, is the key to their real meaning and duplicates them today as gems from the past, as much as a dagger from that ancient time. Would you want to own the dagger from the last thrust against Caesar? I think I might but how would I feel about that particular artifact from the past? I think holding that in my hand would make me shake like one of the conspirators. . . from the awe I'd feel. --------------------- I sometimes think that never blows so red The rose as where some buried Caesar bled. That every hyacynth the garden wears Dropt in its lap from some once lovely head. Ruyaiyat XVIII / Fitzgerald translation

Salvete Comites! I'm a new member and I'd like to introduce myself on the Forum. I'm an old guy, semi retired who has a deep and abiding interest in things Roman: the Latin Language, tools used in construction (things like derricks, hand-tools, modularity of building components), architecture (plans, drawings, or just plain hard thinking), names evolving over time (as a glimpse of our own future), (like Venta Silurium to Caerwent), the Roman talent for organization (the Empire and their laws), the Military (I'm ex-military and know a little of the military mind) the creation of Cities (their successful locations in respect to the need for access for heavy transportation and resources - I'm a former land developer/builder ), and finally, dare I say, things passed over and missed by others if I may be so bold. I have several subjects I'd like to bring up in the (near?) future, but I

Having stood in a few formations, as I'm sure some of you have, the sergeant or senior NCO (Non Commissioned Officer or in this case Centurion) simply yells: 'Soldier' and when everybody looks at him he points directly to the man he wants the attention of. If that man for some reason doesn't respond or notice, the man next to him will see the intent and prompt him with a nudge or worse. When in formation the men are generally paying atttention and looking to the NCO for clues as to what's needed or expected of them. My own philosophy in such matters was whenever in a formation, pay attention but maintain a low profile so as to not be volunteered for anything. The best way to be volunteered for some unwanted detail was to appear as if you were out of it, or preoccupied. The black bird gets picked a lot by hard nosed NCO's for those unwanted details. Once the NCO gets that man's number he won't be able to relax as much. For the most part, when in formation the man in charge has full attention of the men. If they are too relaxed he simply calls them to attention, after which the problem ceases to exist. Faustus

Salve Lothia May I suggest a historical novel by an author who seemed to have a good grasp of the situation in Dacia and describes the abandoned state of that wilderness? From it you might be able to extrapolate to Apulum and Buridava. I think a good place to start your journey and to spark your interest would be Ralph Dulin

Sandra Shaw, a sculptress in Toronto, accepts commissions for portrait busts that would strongly evoke the Greco-Roman attitude toward portraiture. Her website is http://www.sandrashaw.com. I've seen her work in person, attended her lectures, and discussed ancient art with her at some length. I think she would understand, appreciate, and admire your goals. Good luck. M.P. Cato, many, many thanks. Hi Alex I see you